How would a time traveller manifest him or herself now?

[Percarus]

Steve3007, DarwinX, and UniversalAlien...

I will get back to all of your comments in time, I am just a tad busy. I have to admit one thing, I kind of lied when I said I had been doing research for several many days - what I meant is that I borrowed some/few of my ideas from other projects. I did my post in super record time when waking up very early indeed in the morning and I am very ashamed I could not re-edit the font mistakes and grammar errors, and also the fact I could have expanded it a bit longer had I bothered to treat it like a formal exam. Yes, it does have some religious connotations but what is wrong with that given one has ascertained God to be true as any other factor of nature through communicative (presentation of signs) means with such a higher deity. Of course, like many others I am prone to scrutiny, it is the way God works - never showing the truth to the masses.

I will reply later when I get some time to read the above posts. But at first note I don't think anyone bothered to think original new thought to bolster the science/theorem of time travel in a 3D universe.

I will get back to you...

[Steve3007]

Percarus:

I will reply later when I get some time to read the above posts. But at first note I don't think anyone bothered to think original new thought to bolster the science/theorem of time travel in a 3D universe.

I agree that original new thoughts are a good idea. Seeking to either build on, modify or completely replace existing theories about such exotic concepts as time travel is an interesting exercise. But in order to be able to do that, I think it is necessary to have a general, qualitative understanding of what those existing theories say. It's not possible to either extend, modify or replace an idea until we are fairly sure we know what that idea says. It's not possible to make an argument against what somebody is saying until we know what it is that they are saying. In my experience, this seems to be where some ambitious proposers of radical alternative ways of looking at the world tend to fall down.

[Sy Borg]

I agree that original new thoughts are a good idea. Seeking to either build on, modify or completely replace existing theories about such exotic concepts as time travel is an interesting exercise. But in order to be able to do that, I think it is necessary to have a general, qualitative understanding of what those existing theories say. It's not possible to either extend, modify or replace an idea until we are fairly sure we know what that idea says. It's not possible to make an argument against what somebody is saying until we know what it is that they are saying. In my experience, this seems to be where some ambitious proposers of radical alternative ways of looking at the world tend to fall down.

You need a mix of both those experts and interested others who don't know what is impossible.

For instance, I was an advanced Excel user at work and coworkers would ask me to help them with their Excel riddles. I got to see how a lot of people approached using the program and I picked up a surprising number of tricks from naive users. Teachers learn from students. From the mouth of babes ... pick your cliche:)

[Percarus]

1. It appears that your theories are part religious based and are therefore unscientific. Religion and science do not mix. ...

How can you say such a thing, religion and science completely mix. Religion is about understanding human nature, the aspects and differences between good and evil, and to have a firm grasp on historical thinking from the past (inherited wisdom). Religion offers further purpose to fulfil the very cause and nature of science, it offers incentive to learn more about 'higher' life. It is also a process of atonement where we can learn to be at peace with oneself and in this process further the cause of technology and reason for life itself. Religion and science are intertwined in my opinion and in regards to those secular sects that propose to 'encumber' science they, by themselves, are such a minority that in effect have the very basis/reason so as to bring diversity onto this planet and thus give us further incentive to live through the manifested character they bring to the denizens of this Earth.

...2. Tesseracts don't exist in the real world. They are only mathematical play toys which have no natural equivalent. ...

Of course tesseracts can exist. One just has to build one with robotic parts that mimick the movements of one. An advanced enough robotic tesseract could even adjust its movements in a 'fluid' like manner like the liquid-like being in 'Terminator', the movie. Here is a picture of two 'still' life tesseracts that could still account for quantum teleportation, as an example, for further proof that tesseracts could in fact exist even if rigid in form.

...3. Negative mass cosmic string theory is a load of nonsense. The universe is composed of only one sub-atomic particle which has three states which are left spin, right spin and no spin. No spin - is what you would call negative mass. No spin creates a hole in space which left and right spin particles(ethons) rotate around which creates mass. ...

Decades ago 'anti-matter' mayhap could never even be conceived by scientists. Although, mathematically speaking, negatives have been attributed to exist on the Mathematical sense since the times of the Ancients. A 'no-spin' sub-atomic particle seems like a stable compromise if one particle is to transform to another given an event of transmodification as undeniably was the case for all matter at instance prior to the Big Bang. Do you believe that 'anti-matter' is a real concept I ask? Scientists have studied the behaviour of matter and antimatter particles in high-energy collisions at the Large Hadron Collider I am led to believe.

If a negative-mass cosmic string had happened to occur around the time of the Big-Bang it is postulated it would have grown to a macroscopic size by cosmic inflation. It is theorized that at sometime in the early Universe all parts of spacetime (in the 3D perspective of it) were casually connected and I would attribute that from causality that at the dawn of time, given a perturbation in the zero-dimension plane, that undoubtedly a no-spin particle must have at first generated before it even obtained a spin. What is an attributor of motion? God, mayhap sheer fluke, or an undeniable tendency towards movement given a zero-dimensional stress that may occur within the fabric of space perhaps..?!


Forces existent in this physical Universe were ultimately connected to each other through 'vortexes/wormholes' that in turn attributed shape to quantum strings and differentiated our physical Universe to that of other plausible Universes existing in synchrony to ours as if overlayed in a 3D scope

The fermions (antiquarks, antileptons, quarks, and leptons), and their antimatters, as well as the bosons, are the fundamental elementary particles. The superpartners to these (which all have not been proven to exist yet (sneutrino, sleptons, squarks, gravitino, Higgsino, wino/zino, neutralino, cargino, photino), in my opinion (inclusive of all concurred matter) would undoubtedly first have been formed when existence itself existed in a plasmic stage – any shape could have been attributable, and to that effect has been concurred that some elementary particles have no spin, so why would not the element in question be denied plausibility in an Universe, which by all 'humane' aspects can be seen as eternal or perhaps infinite? Torsion naturally accounts for the quantum-mechanical, intrinsic angular momentum (spin) of matter. A priori to existence there does seem to be strong indication of no torsion – points of infinite density, as postulated in black holes, could in effect possess a wealth of lore/newfound-knowledge to humanity's understanding of co-existing Universes/dimensions is my view. Ahem, other theories predict the existence of a gravition, graviscalar, graviphoton, axion, axino, saxion, dilaton, dilatino, X & Y bosons, W' & Z' bosons, magnetic photon, majoron, majorana fermion, and chameleon elementary particles – plenty to give scientists many millennia to prove, understand, and discover thus giving more purpose to our species generations down the track.

There are other hypothetical particles out there (ie: Tachyon, Preons – subparticles of quarks and leptons, and etcetera... The particle in question, with no spin, could be well justified with parity symmetry, just as 'mirror particles' are predicted by theories that restore parity symmetry.

A simple way to accommodate dark matter is to postulate the existence of a hidden sector. That is, a set of new particles and forces interacting with the known particles predominantly via gravity. In general this leads to a large set of unknown parameters, however if the hidden sector is an exact copy of the standard model sector, then an enhanced symmetry arises. ... Ref.1

The atom's (meaning indivisible in Greek) existence remained controversial until about 1910 as physicists regarded molecules as simply mathematical illusions, and matter as ultimately composed of energy. Look how far we have grown in the space of a century...


Alternate Dimensions Superimposed to our Existence may quite possibly hold very zany rules to their spatial Universe – delving in one such alternate string theory Universe may in fact be the equivalent of entiring 'a' God's mind.

...4. Dimensions are just fractal replications of ethons which extend forever inwards and forever outwards to infinity in both directions. Travelling into another dimension would be a physical and logical impossibility. ...

I have no idea of what you mean by 'ethons'. The only definition I found for 'Ethon' was a baby name which means 'one who is firm and steadfast'. It is not known as to whether indeed the universe is infinite, I would attribute it to be circular as akin to a Mobius loop. Travelling to another dimension, to me, seems very plausible – or to the greater extent I postulate a greater probability of there being a different dimension that can interact with our dimension on a one-way basis (how else can you attribute the stories of many seemingly madmen/women throughout the ages? All you need is to find an anomaly/breakage that constrains us to this state of our Universe as a distortion/tear on the very space fabric – co-related to ripping the page of a book in half only to discover another page that lays beneath it. Ahem, here are some creepy interdimensional travel tales: http://listverse.com/2014/05/05/10-cree ... al-travel/

...5. The universe is a very simple place which is constructed with only one sub-atomic particle which has 3 states. All matter and space is made of this one particle and no other particles are required or are necessary. Therefore, the vast majority of current science is a load of nonsense and should be viewed with scepticism.

What exactly is this 'one' subatomic particle you speak of? Is it a gluon? Is it 'raw' energy? There are 117 elements in the periodic table I am led to believe; it matters not if there is only 'one' subatomic particle in space which 'allegedly' only has three states. The seemingly variations that this one particle could take form/shape can attribute different dimensions in arrangement – this is common sense. Just as a DNA helix is composed of two biopolymer strands is quite conceivable to think of a triple helix or more. Our LIMITED capability to perceive the world/universe as it is, as impeded by our senses, cannot be a factor of which we base all our scientific knowledge on – one has to use the brain & heart through the use of abstracts, mayhap even mathematical fundamentals of which physics is based on. When studying Chemical Engineering I had a wonderful lecturer that pointed a wonderful fact to me (his name was David White I think), and that is, if the standard units match on both sides of an equation (whether fabricated or not) then there is a very strong chance that there can be a real physical co-relation within the equation if one is to probe deep into calculus or further empirical analysis.

If you check this site; you may find an eye exercise where you stare at some cross hairs and the pink dots disappear. This already goes to show how limited our brain capacity is to see the Universe as is. You may also have seen the YouTube in which an anomaly is never seen whilst counting the bounces of some basketballers. What you would experience firsthand is the concept of 'selective attention' – and this is the problems with so many Atheists and some Theists. To claim that the majority of science is a load of bul****t is such a gross insult in overhaul to ALL of humanity's accomplishments so I will stop there...

...Very fast electrons hit a target and rapidly decelerate. Their kinetic energy is converted to X-rays. The production of X-rays like this, by electrons, has nothing in itself to do with the vacuum through which the electrons travel before they hit the target. The vacuum is merely necessary to ensure that the electrons don't hit anything else first. Are you getting muddled here? ...

I don't think I placed an emphasis as to whether a vacuum was needed in reference to the point I was trying to make. I am sorry if it seemed 'muddled'.

...The "fourth state of matter" is usually the term that's used for ionized matter - atomic nuclei separated from their electrons. Is this what you're talking about here?... ...

Probably, not sure, can't be stuffed re-reading it. Sir William Crookes was born in 1832 so by fourth state he probably meant a plasmic state – does this impact my argument for teleportation/time-travel in a 3D Universe though?

......because here you seem to switch to talking about mean free path in a gas, which is a different thing. The more rarefied the gas the longer the average distance traveled by each molecule before it hits another molecule. This is not, in itself, anything to do with the concept of ionization/plasma. ...

Ok, I will take your blind word for it – I typed that spiel very rushed indeed.

...Again, you seem to be confused. Ionization means separating electrons from nuclei - i.e. overcoming the atomic binding energy. This has nothing to do with anything recognizable as "dematerialization". The electrons and the nuclei are not turned completely into energy or anything. They still exist.

Nuclear binding energy is concerned with the energy required to split the nucleus into its component parts. Again, there is no obvious link to dematerialization. The component parts of the nucleus still exist. They result in "daughter products" - smaller nuclei.

I'll leave it there for now. Having read the rest of your post, it does touch on all sorts of interesting ideas, but unfortunately it seems to do so in a way that completely misunderstands and muddles up the underlying concepts that you've been reading about.

Ok, this is getting very pedantic... But I appreciate your critique! What I wanted to highlight is that matter by itself 'can' be dematerialized by first covering the outer layers of an atom, the electron valence cloud. I could have delved further, step-by-step, until only radiation is left over and then even further to the point it was completely and utterly gone by a disintegration of sheer matter itself to the point of raw energy that could in turn be transported for the Sci-Fi concept to take place. Or mayhap I could even have covered pseudo physics to the point that the left over energy itself could have at one stage simply vanished! But it matters not, you were impressed by my early morning work and for that I am grateful! For that you deserve a prize, here is a moving pretty picture!:


A conceptual visualization of how moments after a perturbation in the zero-dimension (to produce an electro-magnetic phenomena prior to the creation of multiple overlapping 'string theory' Universes) creation itself could be overshadowed by overarching matter.

...Now I will ask again for someone to tell me 'exactly' where in time is 'now'. - And if you can not do this don't dismiss time travel as it goes on all the time.

Now is simply an entropic state as determined by the Planck time unit of measure as ascertained by the smallest fluctuation that can be generated in the scope of a zero-dimensional plane (have fun trying to figure that one out).

I don't dismiss time travel but my intuition tells me it can't happen. ...

Well, I have sad news for you Harbal, your intuition is erroneous or incomplete. Your quick insight forgets to consider the possibility that 'if' the Universe is infinite (I don't believe the Universe is infinite though and I may give my reasons for that some other day on some thread), and there are an infinite versions of 'you' (a mathematical certainty with infinites), or souls being created with your mind at point of death (justifying the afterlife mathematically given an erroneous assumption); then how is time-travel improbable if one is just to extent a spatial vector sufficiently long enough until we reach a parallel Universe [of which I have only faith to account to the fact that they are limited ] which corresponds to a world that pertains to a point further back in time with your same accrued historicity. I have said it many times before though, time travel can only happen if it is 'pre-ordained'. So if you don't believe in higher life, or a concept of the universe as ascertained by this thread HERE, then I believe that you may be entitled to live your life as similar to the Amish in regards to be so reluctant with technology and new concepts... :-O Sure, conceptualization of life itself may be simple without considering 'higher' truths, and that may lead one to live a very pleasant life; just as the Amish do. However, the Amish have God to comfort them and at least they are aware that technology exists, as are you; but here I use the good god-loving Amish as a metaphor to the bliss associated in living in a world without time travelling paradoxes to consider. "What me worry?"

...It never occurs to us that we might find ourselves in a quite different past --- one in which Hitler was well on his way to winning the war and conquering the world. But that is exactly what might happen, because a curved "line of time" implies that what is undetermined lies both in front of us, as well as behind us, (in relation to our perception of time)....

I like your posts Atreyu, you are a smart man. On the concept of Hitler I once heard (when an early teenager) of a certain role-playing game of which was set in an alternate universe in which Hitler/Germany and the Japanese won World War II. I can't remember its name but if anyone who reads this does let me know. But in regards to what was undetermined being in the past and the future I find a bit of a problem to grasp because I presume that at the moment of creation (a singularity moment) entropy was at its MOST stable state (fully ordered and compacted). It is logical deduction that if matter is perfectly ordered (mayhap the concept is compressed here) sentient life would have evolved so astronomically fast (given only a small fluctuation of time) so as to pre-determine all of its soon to be disordered constituents their eventual fate and disintegration. Ok, here I am talking about an Universal God (despite not being 100% absolutely certain one exists) – and not our provincial deity who could by all accounts be shaping the life of every individual out there too.


KJV, Genesis 1:3 - And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

PS: Further theories on time travel or teleportation desired... (first draft)

[StingRay]

I feel time travel can never happen, because I think we would have already been visited by the people who traveled in it.

[Steve3007]

Greta:

You need a mix of both those experts and interested others who don't know what is impossible.

For instance, I was an advanced Excel user at work and coworkers would ask me to help them with their Excel riddles. I got to see how a lot of people approached using the program and I picked up a surprising number of tricks from naive users. Teachers learn from students. From the mouth of babes ... pick your cliche:)

Yes, I agree that fresh views - people who don't have any baggage - can bring a new perspective to a subject where people who've been studying it for years can have become blinkered. But in order to see whether that new perspective has any bearing on the old perspective it's still necessary to know something about the old perspective.

To use your Excel analogy: Those naive users may show you new ways to use Excel, but you still both agree that you're using the same software! You both agree that, in order to see what it can do, you have to actually use the software.

You both agree that it's a Microsoft spreadsheet application that is found to behave in certain ways and do certain things. If a new user came along and insisted, without ever using it, that it was, in fact, Microsoft Word and if when you pointed to it and said "look! it's Excel!" they refused to look at it but still insisted that it was Word and that all people who believed it to be Excel were engaged in a sinister conspiracy, I suspect you'd be a bit exasperated. If you said: "why not try using it a bit, and then you'll see that you're creating a spreadsheet?" and they said "I don't need to use it to know that it's not a spreadsheet application" I think you'd be a bit puzzled.

Percarus:

Probably, not sure, can't be stuffed re-reading it. Sir William Crookes was born in 1832 so by fourth state he probably meant a plasmic state – does this impact my argument for teleportation/time-travel in a 3D Universe though?

Ok, I will take your blind word for it – I typed that spiel very rushed indeed.

Percarus, you are an unusual one. You seem to openly admit that you don't understand or care much about the things that you yourself write! That "spiel" purported to be part of the basis for your arguments, didn't it? If not, why bother typing it? Why bother skim reading a whole load of popular science books, getting the wrong end of a whole series of sticks and then splurge that onto a philosophy forum? Is it art?

If it is art, I can appreciate that. My sister is severely dyslexic and she did a Fine Art degree. As part of her degree show she explored the theme of the "Chinese whispers" style degradation of data in various ways. One thing she did was to hurriedly copy out the text of a book, with consequent numerous mistakes (due to being dyslexic) and then photocopied it multiple times before displaying it in various ways.

Artists, eh? What are they like?

-- Updated Tue May 12, 2015 9:42 am to add the following --

Percarus to DarwinX:

Of course tesseracts can exist. One just has to build one with robotic parts that mimick the movements of one. An advanced enough robotic tesseract could even adjust its movements in a 'fluid' like manner like the liquid-like being in 'Terminator', the movie.

DarwinX is right. From what you've said here, you don't seem to realize that a tesseract is the 4 dimensional extension of the 3 dimensional concept of a cube, so, by definition it cannot be built. The very nice looking illustrations that you've provided are 2 dimensional representations of 3 dimensional models that themselves are the 3 dimensional "shadows" of a 4 dimensional object. Those 3 dimensional models are not tesseracts any more than a 2 dimensional drawing, on a piece of paper, of a cube is a cube.

-- Updated Tue May 12, 2015 10:26 am to add the following --

Here is a picture of two 'still' life tesseracts that could still account for quantum teleportation, as an example, for further proof that tesseracts could in fact exist even if rigid in form.

Earlier you posted some animations of 3D representations of tesseracts undergoing distortions. That, coupled with your descriptions here of tesseracts "in rigid form", probably means that you think those animations are showing an actual tesseract being distorted.

To understand what those illustrations represent, you have to go back to the analogy with a 3D cube and its 2D projection onto a flat surface. Imagine holding that cube and rotating it. What would happen to the 2D projection of it? It would distort in various ways. The angles between the edges and the lengths of those edges would be constantly changing. But the original 3D cube is not being distorted. Its edges remain the same length and the angles between those edges remain 90 degrees. But when you make that projection from 3D to 2D space; when you lose that dimension, you get distortions.

Increase everything by 1 dimension and that is what is happening with those animations that you posted. The animations themselves, of course, lose a further dimension in being represented on a 2D screen. But if we imagine being able to walk around that constantly changing 3D model, what we're seeing there is a projection into 3 dimensions of a rotating 4D tesseract.

[Percarus]

Steve3007,

Yes, my work is art, it comes from the heart. But when I discuss the concept of a tesseract I am not relating it to the fourth dimension and I use the pictures as illustrations to the 3D conceptualisation of it. Sorry if that caused confusion. My whole argument rests of an universe which lays within the scope of three dimensions. I am sorry about the terminology confusion, I should have just discussed in relevance to the picture as shown. Overall you get the gist of my argument and a reader can easily fill in the gaps with their own knowledge. My apologies, I am usually so pressed for time.

[Forfriends]

You have to consider that everything we look at is past. The stars that we see today by the time the light travel to our receptors they are no longer the same. In some stage you might have to realize that speed of light is actually very limiting.

[Keiran]

There's no such thing as 'time travel'.

The idea comes from a lack of understanding of what time is.

[Forfriends]

But there is such thing as point of reference. It is only still if you don't know how to move it. If you are considering everything from only one point of reference than time traveling will remain abstract.

[UniversalAlien]

There's no such thing as 'time travel'.

The idea comes from a lack of understanding of what time is.

I might say there is no such thing as frozen time and therefor time travel is not only possible but is going on continuously and is not stoppable. Now the only question is whether time can be sped up or reversed - If you can prove that time in no way changes and is always going on at a steady rate then it might not be possible to travel backwards or forwards - But if the rate of time is variable - such as when traveling at near the speed of light - then

“If the Universe came to an end every time there was some uncertainty about what had happened in it, it would never have got beyond the first picosecond. And many of course don't. It's like a human body, you see. A few cuts and bruises here and there don't hurt it. Not even major surgery if it's done properly. Paradoxes are just the scar tissue. Time and space heal themselves up around them and people simply remember a version of events which makes as much sense as they require it to make.”
― Douglas Adams, Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency

"In Einstein's equation, time is a river. It speeds up, meanders, and slows down. The new wrinkle is that it can have whirlpools and fork into two rivers. So, if the river of time can be bent into a pretzel, create whirlpools and fork into two rivers, then time travel cannot be ruled out."
-Michio Kaku

[Keiran]

"In Einstein's equation, time is a river. It speeds up, meanders, and slows down. The new wrinkle is that it can have whirlpools and fork into two rivers. So, if the river of time can be bent into a pretzel, create whirlpools and fork into two rivers, then time travel cannot be ruled out."
-Michio Kaku

You mean the same guy who says the Universe is a bubble and the Big Bang is two universes colliding together? I think this guy has a lot of imagination and a huge lack of scientific methods.

[LuckyR]

There's no such thing as 'time travel'.

The idea comes from a lack of understanding of what time is.

I might say there is no such thing as frozen time and therefor time travel is not only possible but is going on continuously and is not stoppable. Now the only question is whether time can be sped up or reversed - If you can prove that time in no way changes and is always going on at a steady rate then it might not be possible to travel backwards or forwards - But if the rate of time is variable - such as when traveling at near the speed of light - then

Why the question mark? Time travel to the future happens all the time (due to time dilation), to the past, of course is impossible.

[Lagayscienza]

I don’t think a time traveler would manifest itself to us at all. Not yet. Not to this crazy god ridden species that thinks it was created by a time traveler. Who’d want to get involved in such a mess? I mean, imagine trying to talk sense to beings who think they were created by a time traveler and who kill each other over what they like to think this time traveler is like and over what they pretend,for their own selfish reasons,it requires of us? Any time traveler worth his fourth dimension would see us as totally loopy! Any time traveler with an ounce of sense would avoid us like the plague, or at least wait to see if we could ever grow up, before manifesting itself. Who’d want to get involved with such an irrational god bothering life form as us?

-- Updated May 29th, 2015, 6:26 am to add the following --

The wise thing to do would be to quarantine us, keep us from escaping this planet. At least until we grew up and stopped believing in god nonsense so that we did not pose such a threat to other life elsewhere as we have done here on earth. We are a violent, self indulgent and self-destructive species who invented Yahweh and Allah to justify our destructive tendencies. Until we ditch gods and thereby take responsibility for our effect on the universe we must not be allowed to spread beyond earth.

-- Updated May 29th, 2015, 6:59 am to add the following --

The god virus holds us back. It has spread more harm than smallpox, bubonic plague, TB ,AIDS, cancer and syphilis put together. It is the greatest evil. We should wash our hands of it. Under the clear light of science the evil of religion cannot survive. Any time traveler who came by earth would do what she could to turn up the lights.

Please come soon!

-- Updated May 29th, 2015, 7:18 am to add the following --

Thomas Jefferson was right when he said:

"...the priests of the different religious sects ... dread the advance of science as witches do the approach of day-light; and scowl on it the fatal harbinger announcing the subversion of the duperies on which they live."

Ah,yes,a man ahead of his time!

-- Updated May 29th, 2015, 7:34 am to add the following --

How did the people of the United States fall from such lofty ideals into the god ridden mire in which they now find themselves? How has the United States envisioned by Jefferson transformed itself into the united nonsense of present day religious America?

We must hope that America gets back to science before it's too late for America.

[UniversalAlien]

Lagaysceinza wrote:

How did the people of the United States fall from such lofty ideals into the god ridden mire in which they now find themselves? How has the United States envisioned by Jefferson transformed itself into the united nonsense of present day religious America?

We must hope that America gets back to science before it's too late for America.

The say preaching is not allowed on this forum - But if you must why don't you take it to the Religions section of the forum and enlighten them - tell them you can prove, without a reasonable doubt that god could not exist - Prove it and set everyone's mind at ease - Even I would appreciate this so I no longer have to be an Agnostic - I could then begin to believe in a godless atheist universe and fully appreciate how something can come from nothing - I wait for your proof

And whereas Jefferson, and probably others involved in the formation of the US where well aware of religious abuse - They all stood for religious toleration - And guess what every coin minted in the US still says "In God We trust". I would suggest since you 'know' that God does not exist that you protest, start a court case, and insist they remove this motto - Tell them it offends your religion - Your right to exist in a godless unintelligent universe.

" Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism.
-Vladimir Lenin

"If atheism solved all human woe, then the Soviet Union would have been an empire of joy and dancing bunnies instead of the land of corpses."
-John C. Wright

"America's freedom of religion, and freedom from religion, offers every wisdom tradition an opportunity to address our soul-deep needs: Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, secular humanism, agnosticism and atheism among others."
-Parker Palmer

-- Updated May 29th, 2015, 12:59 am to add the following --

And since you want to bring up Thomas Jefferson for your atheist view let a time traveler from the past speak:

Thomas Jefferson and Religion

Contributed by John Ragosta

Thomas Jefferson was deeply but unconventionally religious. An empiricist, he believed that a rational and benevolent God was evident in the beauty and order of the universe. He professed "Christianism," a belief in the morals taught by Jesus of Nazareth, but he rejected Jesus's divinity, resurrection, the atonement, and biblical miracles. As such, Jefferson's beliefs resisted conventional labels, and in 1819 he suggested to a correspondent that "I am of a sect by myself, as far as I know." Jefferson meticulously cut up four copies of the Gospels (in English, French, Greek, and Latin), retaining only selected passages, without miracles, to create The Jefferson Bible, his own book for spiritual guidance and solace. Jefferson's career was also marked by religious controversy. He was denounced as an "arch-infidel" in the presidential election of 1800, and his efforts to prevent the appointment of a minister to teach religion at the University of Virginia, one of the first state-owned colleges in the United States, met strong resistance. Jefferson embraced god-given human rights and opposed their abridgment by government. He is known as one of the founders of American religious freedom, and his phrase "a wall of separation between Church & State" has been viewed as emblematic by historians and by the modern United States Supreme Court. MORE...

See whole article here: http://www.encyclopediavirginia.org/Jef ... tart_entry

" Look at anyone's bookcase at home, no matter how modest, and you're going to find a book that contains wisdom or ideas or a language that's at least a thousand years old. And the idea that humans have created a mechanism to time travel, to hurl ideas into the future, it sort of bookends. Books are a time machine.

-Jonathan Nolan

"Time travel used to be thought of as just science fiction, but Einstein's general theory of relativity allows for the possibility that we could warp space-time so much that you could go off in a rocket and return before you set out."

-Stephen Hawking

-- Updated May 29th, 2015, 1:07 am to add the following --

"Positive anything is better than negative nothing."
-Elbert Hubbard