Are we still in the dark ages of medical science?

Use this forum to discuss the philosophy of science. Philosophy of science deals with the assumptions, foundations, and implications of science.
Harbal
Posts: 1532
Joined: May 6th, 2013, 4:03 pm
Location: Yorkshire

Re: Are we still in the dark ages of medical science?

Post by Harbal » March 27th, 2015, 4:39 pm

Lucylu wrote:Sorry,
Nothing to be sorry for. :)

DarwinX
Posts: 1298
Joined: April 14th, 2013, 4:30 am
Favorite Philosopher: Stephen Hurrell
Location: Australia

Re: Are we still in the dark ages of medical science?

Post by DarwinX » March 28th, 2015, 8:14 pm

Harbal wrote:
DarwinX wrote: So, now your a conspiracy theorist as well! Welcome to the fold.
Is that all you've got to say about it?
volcanic eruptions are real and do cause crop failure, famine and disease outbreaks.
I seem to remember there was an eruption in Iceland a while back that caused quite a lot of disruption but I don't recall many cases of the black death, I suppose they kept quiet about that.
Here's a part of a news report on the eruption in Iceland -

Bardarbunga may be one for the history books, but it’s definitely not the worst in Iceland’s history. That would probably be the 1783-1784 Laki eruption, which killed 60 percent of Iceland’s livestock and about 20 percent of its people. Compared to that, Bardarbunga is “10 times smaller in terms of eruption rate, fire fountain height, and gas content,” Stevenson said.

Thus, it is only a very small eruption and not of the scale that would kill thousands or millions of people. But, the reporter has quoted that previous eruptions were far bigger and have killed 20% of the population of Iceland and 60% of their livestock. If this had occurred 200 years ago a lot more people would have died without having modern amenities to protect them from the fumes and no back-up of food supply in regards to imports etc.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Beware! The devil wears the mask of a saint.

Harbal
Posts: 1532
Joined: May 6th, 2013, 4:03 pm
Location: Yorkshire

Re: Are we still in the dark ages of medical science?

Post by Harbal » March 29th, 2015, 2:13 am

DarwinX wrote: Here's a part of a news report on the eruption in Iceland -
It seems you do accept the authenticity of news reports when it suits you to. The report doesn't say what the people actually died of, unless you conveniently edited it. I'm sure it wasn't something that is normally attributed to viral or bacterial infection. I know that the government and establishment lie to us all the time but they often get found out eventually and a lie on the scale you are talking about would be impossible to contain.

DarwinX
Posts: 1298
Joined: April 14th, 2013, 4:30 am
Favorite Philosopher: Stephen Hurrell
Location: Australia

Re: Are we still in the dark ages of medical science?

Post by DarwinX » March 29th, 2015, 3:58 am

Harbal wrote:
DarwinX wrote: Here's a part of a news report on the eruption in Iceland -
It seems you do accept the authenticity of news reports when it suits you to. The report doesn't say what the people actually died of, unless you conveniently edited it. I'm sure it wasn't something that is normally attributed to viral or bacterial infection. I know that the government and establishment lie to us all the time but they often get found out eventually and a lie on the scale you are talking about would be impossible to contain.
Here's the full report as it appears your computer isn't working properly.

The eruption began as a fissure with 130 craters opened with phreatomagmatic explosions. This event is rated as 6 on the Volcanic Explosivity Index (VEI). The scale is open-ended with the largest volcanoes in history given magnitude 8. For comparison, the 2010 Eyjafjallajökull eruption is rated as magnitude 3 on VEI.

The Laki eruption produced an estimated 14 km3 (3.4 cubic miles) of lava, and the total volume of tephra emitted was 0.91 km3 (0.2 cubic miles). Lava fountains were estimated to have reached heights of 800 to 1,400 meters (2,600 to 4,600 feet).

The gases emitted, including an estimated 8 million tons of hydrogen fluoride and 120 million tons of sulfur dioxide (SO2), caused the death of over 50 percent of Iceland’s livestock, leading to a famine killing approximately 25 percent of the country’s inhabitants.

The Laki eruption and its aftermath caused a drop in global temperatures, as SO2 was spewed into the Northern Hemisphere. This caused crop failures in Europe and may have caused droughts in Asia. The eruption has been estimated to have killed over six million people worldwide, making it the deadliest in historical times.

There now - is 6 million plus deaths caused by this volcano enough for you to see what global effects volcanoes have on health? I suppose that you and the government health authorities will say that this was just a coincidence and the volcano wasn't related to deaths occurring else where.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Beware! The devil wears the mask of a saint.

User avatar
Littleendian
Posts: 70
Joined: March 23rd, 2015, 6:18 am
Favorite Philosopher: Buckethead
Location: down the rabbit hole

Re: Are we still in the dark ages of medical science?

Post by Littleendian » March 30th, 2015, 4:31 pm

LuckyR wrote: As to your excellent doctor, that's what most folks say: "western medicine is populated by money grubbing charlatans... except for MY doctor who is great..."
Well, for that one doctor I found who is doing an okay job (although I go there maybe once every 3 years) I can name no less than ten that I was severely disappointed by.

I have had them try to vacinate me without first verifying my current vacination status, "just to be on the safe side". I've had them try to fix me up with a corset (a then 24 year old otherwise healthy male) because I was complaining about back problems.

Why? Because it made them money. The system is corrupt, and it's not only the patients who suffer from that, but also the doctors.
People see clear enough the barbarities of all ages -- but their own.

User avatar
LuckyR
Moderator
Posts: 2976
Joined: January 18th, 2015, 1:16 am

Re: Are we still in the dark ages of medical science?

Post by LuckyR » March 31st, 2015, 2:37 am

Littleendian wrote:
LuckyR wrote: As to your excellent doctor, that's what most folks say: "western medicine is populated by money grubbing charlatans... except for MY doctor who is great..."
Well, for that one doctor I found who is doing an okay job (although I go there maybe once every 3 years) I can name no less than ten that I was severely disappointed by.

I have had them try to vacinate me without first verifying my current vacination status, "just to be on the safe side". I've had them try to fix me up with a corset (a then 24 year old otherwise healthy male) because I was complaining about back problems.

Why? Because it made them money. The system is corrupt, and it's not only the patients who suffer from that, but also the doctors.
I will ignore your anecdotes... since they're anecdotes. Instead let's address your comment on the "corrupt" system, is your beef with the compensation or the state of optimal medical practice?
"As usual... it depends."

User avatar
Atreyu
Posts: 1724
Joined: June 17th, 2014, 3:11 am
Favorite Philosopher: P.D. Ouspensky
Location: Orlando, FL

Re: Are we still in the dark ages of medical science?

Post by Atreyu » March 31st, 2015, 3:11 am

Certainly modern medicine leaves a lot to be desired, but if you want to talk "dark ages" in relation to modern science, I'd say that psychology wins the "Dark Age Award" hands down....

User avatar
Littleendian
Posts: 70
Joined: March 23rd, 2015, 6:18 am
Favorite Philosopher: Buckethead
Location: down the rabbit hole

Re: Are we still in the dark ages of medical science?

Post by Littleendian » March 31st, 2015, 11:07 am

LuckyR wrote:I will ignore your anecdotes... since they're anecdotes.
Fair enough. I guess I could just've been unlucky in my choice of doctors. Or my friend working at Roche pharmaceuticals could've just been misrepresenting their company-internal research goals.
LuckyR wrote:Instead let's address your comment on the "corrupt" system, is your beef with the compensation or the state of optimal medical practice?
My beef is with what I perceive to be a system that creates incentives not to heal sick people but to make some other people rich. In this system the sick person is becoming a commodity that's being moved through the system, leaving a trace of money.
People see clear enough the barbarities of all ages -- but their own.

User avatar
LuckyR
Moderator
Posts: 2976
Joined: January 18th, 2015, 1:16 am

Re: Are we still in the dark ages of medical science?

Post by LuckyR » March 31st, 2015, 6:38 pm

Littleendian wrote:
LuckyR wrote:Instead let's address your comment on the "corrupt" system, is your beef with the compensation or the state of optimal medical practice?
My beef is with what I perceive to be a system that creates incentives not to heal sick people but to make some other people rich. In this system the sick person is becoming a commodity that's being moved through the system, leaving a trace of money.
I suspected as much. So the OP about the state of medical practice is a separate issue from yours. I will not argue that there aren't illogical incentives in third party payor systems, as well as the relationship between the Health industry companies and providers of care. Well publicized folks are total charlatans, but they are a small minority, most providers in 3rd party payor systems practice within guidelines but at the edge of the guidelines slanted towrds more compensation. But let's not forget that capitated systems are a significant minority of the US market (where provider compensation is completely delinked from these economic forces) and this issue is moot in those systems.
"As usual... it depends."

Post Reply