Is Science Non-sense?

Use this forum to discuss the philosophy of science. Philosophy of science deals with the assumptions, foundations, and implications of science.
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Fooloso4
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Re: Is Science Non-sense?

Post by Fooloso4 » August 28th, 2017, 8:58 pm

-1-:
And let's face it: some people are just plain stupid.
But stupid and arrogant … oy vey!

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Socrateaze
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Re: Is Science Non-sense?

Post by Socrateaze » August 29th, 2017, 4:45 am

-1- wrote:
Socrateaze wrote: A question: if we search our whole life for the meaning of life, have we missed out on the meaning of life?
If the meaning of life is NOT to search for the meaning of life, then once someone finds the meaning of life, the meaning of life is forever lost on him.

----------

About delusionality: Yes, Socrateaze, you're right, one and the same person can be seen as delusional and as not delusional. Allow me the indulgence to decide for myself who is and who is not. If someone is not delusional in a different aspect from how I see him, then that's a subjective judgment, just like mine is subjective judgment.

However, if someone can show that the delusionality or the non-delusionality can be found with objective means, then I still can decide who is and who is not delusional, by applying the objective test. After all, the objective test is available to anyone and everyone.

-- Updated 2017 August 28th, 6:36 pm to add the following --
Fooloso4 wrote:
And some philosophers are arrogant, and some students of Zen are arrogant,and some physicians are arrogant, and some plumbers are arrogant. Some people are arrogant.
Heck, I am arrogant, and I'm none of that. Although someone in my past called my style "Provocative". He was a very fine gentleman, a mathematician, and a philosopher, every inch a gentle gentleman.

-- Updated 2017 August 28th, 6:37 pm to add the following --

And let's face it: some people are just plain stupid.
My point is, if the judgment of delusional behavior is subjective and since no one can be completely objective; I personally take more time before making such judgments. Sometimes delusional people have things to convey, but their method might give off a feel of delusion on their part. I have never ignored strange people, but like I said, always took my time to see if something recessional isn't buried beneath their decorum, which often mislead us in rejecting the whole person.

Yes, some people are plain stupid, but I have discovered that 90% of my dumb friends aren't backstabbers. I have one friend - one friend, who is both intelligent and nice in my whole friend circle of smart and stupid friends. But then, backstabbers with all their lies and tricks make life interesting. :)

-- Updated August 29th, 2017, 4:46 am to add the following --

*rational
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Synthesis
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Re: Is Science Non-sense?

Post by Synthesis » August 29th, 2017, 1:04 pm

If you observe almost all conversations in discussion groups such as this one, you find the following...

Participant 1 ... I am right because [so on and so forth]

Participant 2... I am right because [so on and so forth]

If you initiate a conversation by suggesting that you are correct, then the conversation is over before it starts. Having to be right is an intellectually immature position to take. There's an equal amount of [x and y] in everything knowable, so taking one side of a duality and suggesting you are correct is pointless. Everybody is right and wrong all the time.

What's much more interesting is when people debate an issue for the sake of the issue and not for the sake of being right. For example, in the public sphere, you almost never hear anybody debating real issues, instead they are interested in putting forth an agenda that supports some sort of gaining position. This not only makes for a poor debate, but poor policy, as well.

The purpose of this thread was to point out the above. I was using science because such a large percentage of the population is so firmly attached to the idea that our "existence" can be subjected to detailed analysis [with sides taken]. I was using the the word "non-sense" not to mean that science does not have its role in our lives, but instead, to mean [as hyphenated] that it does not make sense in any real way [as is the case with all things].

The essence of any matter lies well beyond right or wrong. If you don't believe me, ask any tree. :)

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Re: Is Science Non-sense?

Post by Socrateaze » August 29th, 2017, 1:16 pm

Synthesis wrote:If you observe almost all conversations in discussion groups such as this one, you find the following...

Participant 1 ... I am right because [so on and so forth]

Participant 2... I am right because [so on and so forth]

If you initiate a conversation by suggesting that you are correct, then the conversation is over before it starts. Having to be right is an intellectually immature position to take. There's an equal amount of [x and y] in everything knowable, so taking one side of a duality and suggesting you are correct is pointless. Everybody is right and wrong all the time.

What's much more interesting is when people debate an issue for the sake of the issue and not for the sake of being right. For example, in the public sphere, you almost never hear anybody debating real issues, instead they are interested in putting forth an agenda that supports some sort of gaining position. This not only makes for a poor debate, but poor policy, as well.

The purpose of this thread was to point out the above. I was using science because such a large percentage of the population is so firmly attached to the idea that our "existence" can be subjected to detailed analysis [with sides taken]. I was using the the word "non-sense" not to mean that science does not have its role in our lives, but instead, to mean [as hyphenated] that it does not make sense in any real way [as is the case with all things].

The essence of any matter lies well beyond right or wrong. If you don't believe me, ask any tree. :)
Since we're speaking of X's and Y's, differentiate this: db/dy 4a^2 + 9b^5 - 3c^-5

I am clearly aware what you meant by your title and I also know that everybody is right and wrong all the time and not necessarily in relation to each other; sometimes a group of people can be right, despite different conviction. If anybody, I argue for the sake of the topic, which many people in life don't do. And personal messages belong in private messages. :wink:
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Re: Is Science Non-sense?

Post by Synthesis » August 29th, 2017, 1:25 pm

Socrateaze wrote:
Synthesis wrote:If you observe almost all conversations in discussion groups such as this one, you find the following...

Participant 1 ... I am right because [so on and so forth]

Participant 2... I am right because [so on and so forth]

If you initiate a conversation by suggesting that you are correct, then the conversation is over before it starts. Having to be right is an intellectually immature position to take. There's an equal amount of [x and y] in everything knowable, so taking one side of a duality and suggesting you are correct is pointless. Everybody is right and wrong all the time.

What's much more interesting is when people debate an issue for the sake of the issue and not for the sake of being right. For example, in the public sphere, you almost never hear anybody debating real issues, instead they are interested in putting forth an agenda that supports some sort of gaining position. This not only makes for a poor debate, but poor policy, as well.

The purpose of this thread was to point out the above. I was using science because such a large percentage of the population is so firmly attached to the idea that our "existence" can be subjected to detailed analysis [with sides taken]. I was using the the word "non-sense" not to mean that science does not have its role in our lives, but instead, to mean [as hyphenated] that it does not make sense in any real way [as is the case with all things].

The essence of any matter lies well beyond right or wrong. If you don't believe me, ask any tree. :)
Since we're speaking of X's and Y's, differentiate this: db/dy 4a^2 + 9b^5 - 3c^-5

I am clearly aware what you meant by your title and I also know that everybody is right and wrong all the time and not necessarily in relation to each other; sometimes a group of people can be right, despite different conviction. If anybody, I argue for the sake of the topic, which many people in life don't do. And personal messages belong in private messages. :wink:
This post was not aimed at you.

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Socrateaze
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Re: Is Science Non-sense?

Post by Socrateaze » August 29th, 2017, 1:27 pm

Synthesis wrote:
Socrateaze wrote: (Nested quote removed.)


Since we're speaking of X's and Y's, differentiate this: db/dy 4a^2 + 9b^5 - 3c^-5

I am clearly aware what you meant by your title and I also know that everybody is right and wrong all the time and not necessarily in relation to each other; sometimes a group of people can be right, despite different conviction. If anybody, I argue for the sake of the topic, which many people in life don't do. And personal messages belong in private messages. :wink:
This post was not aimed at you.
Cool
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Fooloso4
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Re: Is Science Non-sense?

Post by Fooloso4 » August 29th, 2017, 3:36 pm

Synthesis:
If you observe almost all conversations in discussion groups such as this one, you find the following...

Participant 1 ... I am right because [so on and so forth]

Participant 2... I am right because [so on and so forth]
You are participant 1, right? Or do you not see it that way? Perhaps not, but I do not think I am alone in seeing it that way.

I, of course, am participant 2. Although I don't see it that way, I understand why others might. The guiding question for me is not who is right but what is right. This does not necessary mean X is right or wrong, but perhaps x1 and x 2 are or preferable to the alternative, and the answer in many cases should be provisional, and our attitude tenuous. We do have to make choices and so we cannot simply put questions of right and wrong aside as if it is wrong to ask what is right.
The purpose of this thread was to point out the above.
I am sorry I don’t see it that way, but I am not going to rehash it. What puzzles me though is why if you are so adverse to philosophical argument you come to a philosophy forum to do what if not argue?

Synthesis
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Re: Is Science Non-sense?

Post by Synthesis » August 29th, 2017, 5:00 pm

Fooloso4 wrote:Synthesis:
If you observe almost all conversations in discussion groups such as this one, you find the following...

Participant 1 ... I am right because [so on and so forth]

Participant 2... I am right because [so on and so forth]
You are participant 1, right? Or do you not see it that way? Perhaps not, but I do not think I am alone in seeing it that way.

I, of course, am participant 2. Although I don't see it that way, I understand why others might. The guiding question for me is not who is right but what is right. This does not necessary mean X is right or wrong, but perhaps x1 and x 2 are or preferable to the alternative, and the answer in many cases should be provisional, and our attitude tenuous. We do have to make choices and so we cannot simply put questions of right and wrong aside as if it is wrong to ask what is right.
The purpose of this thread was to point out the above.
I am sorry I don’t see it that way, but I am not going to rehash it. What puzzles me though is why if you are so adverse to philosophical argument you come to a philosophy forum to do what if not argue?
Fooloso4, I was not referring to you and I, but just conversations, in general.

Right and wrong, like all things knowable are constantly changing because events antecedent are changing, as well. Making prudent decisions is not about right and wrong [but can be]. Seeing with clarity is the best hope any of us have a making the most balanced decisions in our own lives.

Attempting to tell other adults what is right or wrong is futile because you can never [really] understand their situation. Imagine attempting to counsel even a twenty year old when the last moment of their life is determined by an infinite number of moments preceding. Skilled professional counselors are so because they help their patients/clients to figure out their own solutions based on their own experiences.

As far as philosophical debate is concerned, I enjoy this but I am not interested in being right. Instead, I am interested in exploring the topic at hand. Besides, you can win any argument if you understand how thinking works.

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