What is Artificial Intelligence?

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Chili
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Re: What is Artificial Intelligence?

Post by Chili » October 13th, 2017, 12:00 pm

Synthesis wrote:All things knowable are constantly changing. If you are interested in variety, you have infinite choice. If it is the Truth you seek, then you might wish to consider things as they are.

And you are 100% correct when you state that I do not know what I am saying. You just don't know why.
You are alive because your ancestors were good at making war, and good at making peace. You are alive because your ancestors were good at following hunches, and good at thinking things through.

There is a simple singular reality - but this is only true in principle or in the abstract. When it comes down to specific cases, people are using their limited abilities and experience to guide them in their as-real-as-possible dealings with the unknown and unknowable reality.

Perhaps, in your limited experience, you've come across the story of the 3 blind men and the elephant. You seem to be like one of these men who thinks "why are the other 2 men bringing up all these issues and questions having nothing to do with "trunk" and coming from their psychological baggage, , when the *reality* of the elephant - it is just this never-ending trunk - lies right before all?"

Synthesis
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Re: What is Artificial Intelligence?

Post by Synthesis » October 14th, 2017, 12:18 pm

LuckyR wrote:
Well, if you have low down right sided abdominal pain and nausea and vomiting and you feel weak and hot and all you want to do is crawl in bed and curl into a ball, I suggest you think it through and head to the ER to have your appendix out instead of dying in your bed.
As a practicing physician, I can tell you that the biggest mistakes patients make is in over-thinking it [or allowing their emotions to dictate].

-- Updated October 14th, 2017, 12:23 pm to add the following --

[quote="Chili"Perhaps, in your limited experience, you've come across the story of the 3 blind men and the elephant. You seem to be like one of these men who thinks "why are the other 2 men bringing up all these issues and questions having nothing to do with "trunk" and coming from their psychological baggage, , when the *reality* of the elephant - it is just this never-ending trunk - lies right before all?"[/quote]
This demonstrates relative/subjective reality but so what? Actual Reality exists outside of this.

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LuckyR
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Re: What is Artificial Intelligence?

Post by LuckyR » October 15th, 2017, 2:03 am

Synthesis wrote:
LuckyR wrote:
Well, if you have low down right sided abdominal pain and nausea and vomiting and you feel weak and hot and all you want to do is crawl in bed and curl into a ball, I suggest you think it through and head to the ER to have your appendix out instead of dying in your bed.
As a practicing physician, I can tell you that the biggest mistakes patients make is in over-thinking it [or allowing their emotions to dictate].
What real patients do is immaterial to your ideas, they (like everyone else) think things through routinely. We need to make up fictional scenarios to converse on this topic because no one we know lived thousands of years ago and has that (supposed) way of thinking.
"As usual... it depends."

Synthesis
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Re: What is Artificial Intelligence?

Post by Synthesis » October 15th, 2017, 1:33 pm

LuckyR wrote:
Synthesis wrote: (Nested quote removed.)

As a practicing physician, I can tell you that the biggest mistakes patients make is in over-thinking it [or allowing their emotions to dictate].
What real patients do is immaterial to your ideas, they (like everyone else) think things through routinely. We need to make up fictional scenarios to converse on this topic because no one we know lived thousands of years ago and has that (supposed) way of thinking.
You are mis-understanding what I am saying.

It has been known for thousands of years that there is an alternative to what most people would consider, "standard intellectual thinking." This alternative makes up the basis of Eastern philosophy, that is, simply accepting "what it is" as opposed to altering Reality in confirmation to ones fancy.

I am not saying that you can not use your intellect, the difference comes in understanding what it can and can not do for you. In other words, you use your intellect to get you to the point where you begin to use it differently. This applies to all things we do [we change our approach as we learn].

What real patients do is quite relevant because this is what nearly everybody does. Simply observe what is going on out there in the American population. Obesity is epidemic leading to incredible levels of hypertension, diabetes, and other broadly systemic maladies. In the face of ever increasing information available to the public, why would this be happening?

Thinking is simply a tool, but one that only points us in a direction. Making good decisions is rarely dependent on our "thinking," instead it is dependent on our awareness. Awareness is the ability to see what is actually going on. It is the intellect, guided [mostly] our desires/fears that distorts what's going on and turns it into our own [fill in the blank].

Chili
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Re: What is Artificial Intelligence?

Post by Chili » October 15th, 2017, 2:12 pm

Synthesis wrote:
Thinking is simply a tool, but one that only points us in a direction. Making good decisions is rarely dependent on our "thinking," instead it is dependent on our awareness. Awareness is the ability to see what is actually going on. It is the intellect, guided [mostly] our desires/fears that distorts what's going on and turns it into our own [fill in the blank].
The more we learn, the more we realize there is so much more to learn. Everyone who learns anything comes to see the ahem "Reality" of that very soon.
I must conclude that you have never learned anything. Perhaps rocking back-and-forth in the corner, eyes closed, you accept the "Reality Of The Known And Decided." Any time you need assistance in any area of life - watching a TV, seeing a doctor, taking an airplane flight - you will be dealing with the handiwork of people who worked very hard to think things through and find things out, rather than simply resting on their laurels and staring into their navels, basking in the simple "Reality Of The Known And Decided." You are lucky to live in a time where so many have created so many solutions to so many problems, even if you callously scoff at them when you are not in need. If you can use your "awareness" to outdo mere thinkers, think how much money you could get in some skeptical society's ESP contest. Then you could give that to the poor. This would be a splendid demonstration of the value of "awareness" over "thinking".

You'd probably never been born without the disciplined thinking of people like Mr. Jenner.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/book ... -cure.html

Synthesis
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Re: What is Artificial Intelligence?

Post by Synthesis » October 15th, 2017, 3:42 pm

Chili wrote:
Synthesis wrote:
Thinking is simply a tool, but one that only points us in a direction. Making good decisions is rarely dependent on our "thinking," instead it is dependent on our awareness. Awareness is the ability to see what is actually going on. It is the intellect, guided [mostly] our desires/fears that distorts what's going on and turns it into our own [fill in the blank].
The more we learn, the more we realize there is so much more to learn. Everyone who learns anything comes to see the ahem "Reality" of that very soon.
I must conclude that you have never learned anything. Perhaps rocking back-and-forth in the corner, eyes closed, you accept the "Reality Of The Known And Decided." Any time you need assistance in any area of life - watching a TV, seeing a doctor, taking an airplane flight - you will be dealing with the handiwork of people who worked very hard to think things through and find things out, rather than simply resting on their laurels and staring into their navels, basking in the simple "Reality Of The Known And Decided." You are lucky to live in a time where so many have created so many solutions to so many problems, even if you callously scoff at them when you are not in need. If you can use your "awareness" to outdo mere thinkers, think how much money you could get in some skeptical society's ESP contest. Then you could give that to the poor. This would be a splendid demonstration of the value of "awareness" over "thinking".

You'd probably never been born without the disciplined thinking of people like Mr. Jenner.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/book ... -cure.html
Well, I wish you the best of luck.

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LuckyR
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Re: What is Artificial Intelligence?

Post by LuckyR » October 16th, 2017, 2:06 am

Synthesis wrote:
LuckyR wrote: (Nested quote removed.)


What real patients do is immaterial to your ideas, they (like everyone else) think things through routinely. We need to make up fictional scenarios to converse on this topic because no one we know lived thousands of years ago and has that (supposed) way of thinking.
You are mis-understanding what I am saying.

It has been known for thousands of years that there is an alternative to what most people would consider, "standard intellectual thinking." This alternative makes up the basis of Eastern philosophy, that is, simply accepting "what it is" as opposed to altering Reality in confirmation to ones fancy.

I am not saying that you can not use your intellect, the difference comes in understanding what it can and can not do for you. In other words, you use your intellect to get you to the point where you begin to use it differently. This applies to all things we do [we change our approach as we learn].

What real patients do is quite relevant because this is what nearly everybody does. Simply observe what is going on out there in the American population. Obesity is epidemic leading to incredible levels of hypertension, diabetes, and other broadly systemic maladies. In the face of ever increasing information available to the public, why would this be happening?

Thinking is simply a tool, but one that only points us in a direction. Making good decisions is rarely dependent on our "thinking," instead it is dependent on our awareness. Awareness is the ability to see what is actually going on. It is the intellect, guided [mostly] our desires/fears that distorts what's going on and turns it into our own [fill in the blank].
Ok, so why are Americans fat? Because they are thinking things through, or because they aren't really thinking about the amount of fat in their Big Mac and they knee jerkily respond to saltiness, advertising and mouth feel?
"As usual... it depends."

Steve3007
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Re: What is Artificial Intelligence?

Post by Steve3007 » October 16th, 2017, 1:40 pm

I quite like the idea that fat people are fat because they are thinking things through. Makes me think of ruminants.
For evil views to flourish, it only requires good people to say nothing.

Chili
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Re: What is Artificial Intelligence?

Post by Chili » October 16th, 2017, 1:46 pm

LuckyR wrote: Ok, so why are Americans fat? Because they are thinking things through, or because they aren't really thinking about the amount of fat in their Big Mac and they knee jerkily respond to saltiness, advertising and mouth feel?
Yep. It looks like there's more to "awareness" than just not thinking.

"THERE'S MORE TO BEING A MINISTER
THAN NOT CARING ABOUT PEOPLE."
- simpsons
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Synthesis
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Re: What is Artificial Intelligence?

Post by Synthesis » October 16th, 2017, 2:52 pm

LuckyR wrote:Ok, so why are Americans fat? Because they are thinking things through, or because they aren't really thinking about the amount of fat in their Big Mac and they knee jerkily respond to saltiness, advertising and mouth feel?
Eating is a choice. If people are [literally] eating themselves to death, then they have emotional issues, by definition. Emotional issues are intellectual issues. It is not a matter of people mis-understanding that if they consume 25 Twinkies, that bad health is in the offing, but instead, they crave the temporary comfort that such may provide [the same as any drug].

Awareness is seeing that good eating habits are critical to maintaining optimal health [along with proper sleep, exercise, and keeping your head together]. Where it goes from there depends on what your mental/emotional states do with this information.

Chili
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Re: What is Artificial Intelligence?

Post by Chili » October 16th, 2017, 3:07 pm

Synthesis wrote:
Awareness is seeing that good eating habits are critical to maintaining optimal health [along with proper sleep, exercise, and keeping your head together]. Where it goes from there depends on what your mental/emotional states do with this information.
But what if all the commercials from the friendly clown on TV tell you to simply relax & consume. No emotional or intellectual baggage. I think you may have to experience some kind of crisis - or simply have been encouraged to think critically - to escape this influence.

Synthesis
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Re: What is Artificial Intelligence?

Post by Synthesis » October 16th, 2017, 3:13 pm

Chili wrote:
Synthesis wrote:
Awareness is seeing that good eating habits are critical to maintaining optimal health [along with proper sleep, exercise, and keeping your head together]. Where it goes from there depends on what your mental/emotional states do with this information.
But what if all the commercials from the friendly clown on TV tell you to simply relax & consume. No emotional or intellectual baggage. I think you may have to experience some kind of crisis - or simply have been encouraged to think critically - to escape this influence.
Commercials are ALL about emotion. They are either attempting to sell happiness or the antidote to fear.

Chili
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Re: What is Artificial Intelligence?

Post by Chili » October 16th, 2017, 3:18 pm

Synthesis wrote: Commercials are ALL about emotion. They are either attempting to sell happiness or the antidote to fear.
Well, I wish you the best of luck. If you aren't willing to think critically about the influences and choices in life, you will find that only luck will help you.

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Atreyu
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Re: What is Artificial Intelligence?

Post by Atreyu » October 17th, 2017, 6:23 pm

Synthesis wrote:
Atreyu wrote:You're talking about attaining absolute objectivity/understanding, which indeed is impossible. You're just restating the principles of Kant, which imo are quite correct. I agree.

But your "solution" is not a solution at all. Men have to try and understand things. That's how we're wired. The solution is to find out how to attain a higher level of consciousness...
I am not suggesting anything of the kind. What I am inferring is that the human mind can come nowhere close to Reality, so far away, in fact, that the result of our intellectual miscalculations have been disastrous [on balance]. Please examine our species' historical record in this regard.

I would have no problem siding with you in believing that if man could get close enough to the Truth [intellectually, which might result in an overall positive outcome], but, again, get out your boxscore of the 20th century and refresh your memory of the transgressions that went down, beginning to end.

As much as the perma-Bulls would like to hang their hats on a few accomplishments here and there, the human suffering that has taken place because of man's inability to perceive/interpret with accuracy, clearly demonstrates the outcome, time and again. Greed, anger, and delusion are intellectual constructs and the basis of most evil [actions] that goes down in the name of every damn rationale.

Atreya, your position is much like that of central bankers who swear that what they do is the interests of all people.
You're talking about the species as a whole. I was talking about individuals. I agree with you that it's hopeless for mankind in general, but what is impossible for the 'masses' is often quite possible for the few....

Synthesis
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Re: What is Artificial Intelligence?

Post by Synthesis » October 17th, 2017, 8:20 pm

Atreyu wrote: You're talking about the species as a whole. I was talking about individuals. I agree with you that it's hopeless for mankind in general, but what is impossible for the 'masses' is often quite possible for the few....
Here's where we must allow Reality to intrude.

In Absolute terms, there is zero difference between the individual and the masses. Although many of us are in denial as to this claim, each day of life should make this more and more apparent. The illusion that we are separate would be like the moon claiming that, it [too] is separate from the rest of the Universe.

Just as we can easily understand that the moon is [essentially] all part of the Universe and almost none separate, we have a similar fate, as well [except the separate part is merely delusion, as it is for all things].

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