Can Evolution Explain Consciousness?

Use this forum to discuss the philosophy of science. Philosophy of science deals with the assumptions, foundations, and implications of science.
User avatar
ThomasHobbes
Posts: 1122
Joined: May 5th, 2018, 5:53 pm

Re: Can Evolution Explain Consciousness?

Post by ThomasHobbes »

Karpel Tunnel wrote: May 22nd, 2018, 8:21 am But science goes far beyond describing what we find. It explains why and how things got to be the way they are. It posits things not present, not capable of being sensed (iow not directly empirical things) and how these lead to what we experience.

I think you will find that the 'why' in the above sentence is wholly redundant.
User avatar
Consul
Posts: 6037
Joined: February 21st, 2014, 6:32 am
Location: Germany

Re: Can Evolution Explain Consciousness?

Post by Consul »

anonymous66 wrote: May 22nd, 2018, 7:12 amThere are a lot of conscious humans.... But, what of conscious animals? Is their consciousness an advantage?
I see some conscious animals and some that don't display signs of consciousness (mirror test). It seems to me that animals without consciousness are doing quite well.
See: Consciousness > The functional question: Why does consciousness exist?
"We may philosophize well or ill, but we must philosophize." – Wilfrid Sellars
Karpel Tunnel
Posts: 948
Joined: February 16th, 2018, 11:28 am

Re: Can Evolution Explain Consciousness?

Post by Karpel Tunnel »

ThomasHobbes wrote: May 22nd, 2018, 8:27 am
Karpel Tunnel wrote: May 22nd, 2018, 8:21 am But science goes far beyond describing what we find. It explains why and how things got to be the way they are. It posits things not present, not capable of being sensed (iow not directly empirical things) and how these lead to what we experience.

I think you will find that the 'why' in the above sentence is wholly redundant.
1) that's all you responded to? 2) sure, but then the 'how' is also redundant in that sentence, since the 'why' covers that ground and we could leave it instead. Why does not just mean 'why did someone or something do things that way?'
anonymous66
Posts: 439
Joined: January 12th, 2018, 4:01 pm

Re: Can Evolution Explain Consciousness?

Post by anonymous66 »

Karpel Tunnel wrote: May 22nd, 2018, 8:21 am
But all this is a digression from his use of why. He could have used how and his main point is still interesting. Since we can imagine all the functions of animals being performed as non-conscious mechanisms, how did conscousness arise in evolution. The utterly determined chemical machines of animals do not need internal experience, they simply need to have those traits that lead to successful proceation. It would seem like awareness (consciousness) is simply an emergent byproduct.

His question has more to do with the zombie issue in philosophy.
Thank you. I'm pursuing multiple lines of inquiry, but one of them is definitely: Why do have/need that inner experience (qualia) that we refer to as consciousness? It does seem as if all evolution is concerned with is behavior.
User avatar
LuckyR
Moderator
Posts: 7935
Joined: January 18th, 2015, 1:16 am

Re: Can Evolution Explain Consciousness?

Post by LuckyR »

anonymous66 wrote: May 22nd, 2018, 7:12 am
LuckyR wrote: May 22nd, 2018, 1:40 am

Uummm... don't you think that homo sapiens has accomplished somewhat more than the median among earth inhabitants?

It is easier to keep animals down (hunting, domestication) then raising them up (training, genetic engineering). But don't worry, it's coming (if it isn't here already).
There are a lot of conscious humans.... But, what of conscious animals? Is their consciousness an advantage?
I see some conscious animals and some that don't display signs of consciousness (mirror test). It seems to me that animals without consciousness are doing quite well.
Every observable being's group has, by definition successfully passed on it's genetic material to get here. That in and of itself, is a very low bar. Though you bring up a very good point. Namely that while consciousness is a prerequisite for planetary domination (as I alluded to), that it alone is not sufficient (as you pointed out). Of course we are beneficiaries of countless generations of human activity, many of which didn't confer much benefit to individual humans (as compared to wild animals), so our perspectives are biased and don't necessarily represent the history of the human experience. Similarly, species who express consciousness may as a group not be as "successful" as other instinct based groups, depending on the definition of success. However, most would agree that individuals within those groups have the potential (depending commonly on circumstances beyond their control) for much more fulfilling lives than individuals without it.
"As usual... it depends."
User avatar
ThomasHobbes
Posts: 1122
Joined: May 5th, 2018, 5:53 pm

Re: Can Evolution Explain Consciousness?

Post by ThomasHobbes »

Karpel Tunnel wrote: May 22nd, 2018, 10:21 am
ThomasHobbes wrote: May 22nd, 2018, 8:27 am


I think you will find that the 'why' in the above sentence is wholly redundant.
1) that's all you responded to? 2) sure, but then the 'how' is also redundant in that sentence, since the 'why' covers that ground and we could leave it instead. Why does not just mean 'why did someone or something do things that way?'
Without 'how' there is no science.
If you want to know why go to church.
"WHy" is just a legacy from a time when people believed everything happens for a reason, and that reason what God's.
Wmhoerr
Posts: 46
Joined: January 3rd, 2019, 1:51 pm
Favorite Philosopher: Bertrand Russell
Contact:

Re: Can Evolution Explain Consciousness?

Post by Wmhoerr »

Assuming two things: 1. we are consciousness, and 2. We are evolved animals, then there is nothing else to explain consciousness. What other mechanism, other than the differential survival of variations (evolution), is operating?
Jan Sand
Posts: 658
Joined: September 10th, 2017, 11:57 am

Re: Can Evolution Explain Consciousness?

Post by Jan Sand »

Consciousness must be understood before it can be explained. Starting from scratch I have tried to understand the status of the brain in a world that requires a good deal of knowledge to prevent death and provide necessities. The brain is enclosed within a bone hollow and its only access to the outer world is through nerve impulses from the sense organs. There must be a fundamental genetic fund of information that the brain possesses to sort out somewhat what these impulses mean and the brain gradually builds up some kind of model as to what is going on. Each individual brain has a different set of experiences so the model we each construct must have some similarity but with individual differences. The brain not only constructs this theoretical model but places itself within the model much as a chess piece represented the player on a chess board. This piece that moves within the theoretically constructed model is the consciousness and it knows only the model the brain constructs and not what we might regard as outside reality. That is why a hypnotized person can "see" what is suggested because the consciousness does not see "reality" but merely the brain construction. This is the Socratic cave in which we each live where we regard the "shadows" we perceive as the real world which is far more complex and alien than the simplified brain model. Nevertheless it contains sufficient information for us to survive and reproduce. Science is the process we use to make the model we know simulate whatever may be outside but that model must be continuously modified as we learn more - which is why science will never end its search because our sense systems are unaware of the bulk of what might be called reality.
User avatar
detail
Posts: 171
Joined: June 1st, 2019, 1:39 pm

Re: Can Evolution Explain Consciousness?

Post by detail »

Well consciousness is not always present in evolutionary beeings. Some animals cannot recognize themselves in mirrors. What if a living beeing without a consciousness has less realistic pains than other beeings and is without consciousness capable to react by far better than with consciousness. Intelligence is a certain advantage especially if youre capable to use tools, but is it always a superior mechanism in surviving natural pregiven settings ?
Post Reply

Return to “Philosophy of Science”

2023/2024 Philosophy Books of the Month

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise
by John K Danenbarger
January 2023

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul
by Mitzi Perdue
February 2023

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness
by Chet Shupe
March 2023

The Unfakeable Code®

The Unfakeable Code®
by Tony Jeton Selimi
April 2023

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are
by Alan Watts
May 2023

Killing Abel

Killing Abel
by Michael Tieman
June 2023

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead
by E. Alan Fleischauer
July 2023

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough
by Mark Unger
August 2023

Predictably Irrational

Predictably Irrational
by Dan Ariely
September 2023

Artwords

Artwords
by Beatriz M. Robles
November 2023

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope
by Dr. Randy Ross
December 2023

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes
by Ali Master
February 2024

2022 Philosophy Books of the Month

Emotional Intelligence At Work

Emotional Intelligence At Work
by Richard M Contino & Penelope J Holt
January 2022

Free Will, Do You Have It?

Free Will, Do You Have It?
by Albertus Kral
February 2022

My Enemy in Vietnam

My Enemy in Vietnam
by Billy Springer
March 2022

2X2 on the Ark

2X2 on the Ark
by Mary J Giuffra, PhD
April 2022

The Maestro Monologue

The Maestro Monologue
by Rob White
May 2022

What Makes America Great

What Makes America Great
by Bob Dowell
June 2022

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!
by Jerry Durr
July 2022

Living in Color

Living in Color
by Mike Murphy
August 2022 (tentative)

The Not So Great American Novel

The Not So Great American Novel
by James E Doucette
September 2022

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches
by John N. (Jake) Ferris
October 2022

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All
by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
November 2022

The Smartest Person in the Room: The Root Cause and New Solution for Cybersecurity

The Smartest Person in the Room
by Christian Espinosa
December 2022

2021 Philosophy Books of the Month

The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God's Plan

The Biblical Clock
by Daniel Friedmann
March 2021

Wilderness Cry: A Scientific and Philosophical Approach to Understanding God and the Universe

Wilderness Cry
by Dr. Hilary L Hunt M.D.
April 2021

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute: Tools To Spark Your Dream And Ignite Your Follow-Through

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute
by Jeff Meyer
May 2021

Surviving the Business of Healthcare: Knowledge is Power

Surviving the Business of Healthcare
by Barbara Galutia Regis M.S. PA-C
June 2021

Winning the War on Cancer: The Epic Journey Towards a Natural Cure

Winning the War on Cancer
by Sylvie Beljanski
July 2021

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream
by Dr Frank L Douglas
August 2021

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts
by Mark L. Wdowiak
September 2021

The Preppers Medical Handbook

The Preppers Medical Handbook
by Dr. William W Forgey M.D.
October 2021

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress: A Practical Guide

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress
by Dr. Gustavo Kinrys, MD
November 2021

Dream For Peace: An Ambassador Memoir

Dream For Peace
by Dr. Ghoulem Berrah
December 2021