Is There Another Force Besides Natural Selection?

Use this forum to discuss the philosophy of science. Philosophy of science deals with the assumptions, foundations, and implications of science.
User avatar
Sy Borg
Site Admin
Posts: 14992
Joined: December 16th, 2013, 9:05 pm

Re: Is There Another Force Besides Natural Selection?

Post by Sy Borg »

ThomasHobbes wrote: October 7th, 2018, 5:27 am
LuckyR wrote: October 3rd, 2018, 6:16 pm I don't believe this thread has even scratched the surface of horizontal gene transfer (or lateral gene transfer)
Microbes are not as sexy as macro-organisms.
From Wiki:
Horizontal gene transfer is the primary mechanism for the spread of antibiotic resistance in bacteria,[5][7][8][9][10] and plays an important role in the evolution of bacteria that can degrade novel compounds such as human-created pesticides[11] and in the evolution, maintenance, and transmission of virulence.[12] It often involves temperate bacteriophages and plasmids.[13][14][15] Genes responsible for antibiotic resistance in one species of bacteria can be transferred to another species of bacteria through various mechanisms of HGT such as Transformation (genetics), Transduction (genetics) and Conjugation (genetics), subsequently arming the antibiotic resistant genes' recipient against antibiotics. The rapid spread of antibiotic resistance genes in this manner is becoming medically challenging to deal with. It is also postulated that HGT promotes the maintenance of a universal life biochemistry and, subsequently, the universality of the genetic code.[16]

Most thinking in genetics has focused upon vertical transfer, but the importance of horizontal gene transfer among single-cell organisms is beginning to be acknowledged.
Might the lack of non-technical user-friendly language be a roadblock here? Imagine a conversation, "That is fine specimen of a Canis lupis familiaris you are hauling around by the throat there! A most pleasing alpha-keratin outer layer. And my my, those mahogany irises are seemingly artificially selected to facilitate a bonding response in many hominids and perhaps, albeit incidentally, in select other mammal species".

Nerd alert!

Until we can speak of our inner populations without sounding like wannabe Pointdexters there will never be much interest or attempts to understand them beyond healthcare. At this stage the usual language tends to consist of "germs", "bugs", "cells" plus common disease names. I think there's a fundamental misunderstanding of the very small. We have a tendency to think of cells as little machines and bacteria as living beings. In truth, cells are relatively complex like us and bacteria are more like fauna and flora.

Still, people were ignorant of a lot of things before mass communications (yes, I know the obvious rejoinder but I think we have to take as a given that varying proportions of humanity over history will not embrace reason, just as we accept that in many other species). Further exposure to high quality microscopy should change this. Already electron microscope images have a following (I'm one) and advances in close up photography may open the microscopic world up more for people.

I think that time lapse photography also has the potential to raise human consciousness by effectively providing a temporal overview of organisms and locales.

Are entropy and chaos worth raising here in context?
User avatar
ThomasHobbes
Posts: 1122
Joined: May 5th, 2018, 5:53 pm

Re: Is There Another Force Besides Natural Selection?

Post by ThomasHobbes »

Greta wrote: October 7th, 2018, 5:44 pm
ThomasHobbes wrote: October 7th, 2018, 5:27 am

Microbes are not as sexy as macro-organisms.
From Wiki:
Horizontal gene transfer is the primary mechanism for the spread of antibiotic resistance in bacteria,[5][7][8][9][10] and plays an important role in the evolution of bacteria that can degrade novel compounds such as human-created pesticides[11] and in the evolution, maintenance, and transmission of virulence.[12] It often involves temperate bacteriophages and plasmids.[13][14][15] Genes responsible for antibiotic resistance in one species of bacteria can be transferred to another species of bacteria through various mechanisms of HGT such as Transformation (genetics), Transduction (genetics) and Conjugation (genetics), subsequently arming the antibiotic resistant genes' recipient against antibiotics. The rapid spread of antibiotic resistance genes in this manner is becoming medically challenging to deal with. It is also postulated that HGT promotes the maintenance of a universal life biochemistry and, subsequently, the universality of the genetic code.[16]

Most thinking in genetics has focused upon vertical transfer, but the importance of horizontal gene transfer among single-cell organisms is beginning to be acknowledged.
Might the lack of non-technical user-friendly language be a roadblock here? Imagine a conversation, "That is fine specimen of a Canis lupis familiaris you are hauling around by the throat there! A most pleasing alpha-keratin outer layer. And my my, those mahogany irises are seemingly artificially selected to facilitate a bonding response in many hominids and perhaps, albeit incidentally, in select other mammal species".

Nerd alert!

Until we can speak of our inner populations without sounding like wannabe Pointdexters there will never be much interest or attempts to understand them beyond healthcare. At this stage the usual language tends to consist of "germs", "bugs", "cells" plus common disease names. I think there's a fundamental misunderstanding of the very small. We have a tendency to think of cells as little machines and bacteria as living beings. In truth, cells are relatively complex like us and bacteria are more like fauna and flora.

Still, people were ignorant of a lot of things before mass communications (yes, I know the obvious rejoinder but I think we have to take as a given that varying proportions of humanity over history will not embrace reason, just as we accept that in many other species). Further exposure to high quality microscopy should change this. Already electron microscope images have a following (I'm one) and advances in close up photography may open the microscopic world up more for people.

I think that time lapse photography also has the potential to raise human consciousness by effectively providing a temporal overview of organisms and locales.

Are entropy and chaos worth raising here in context?
I was making a pun. Not sexy literally and figuratively (as in sexy news)
User avatar
Sy Borg
Site Admin
Posts: 14992
Joined: December 16th, 2013, 9:05 pm

Re: Is There Another Force Besides Natural Selection?

Post by Sy Borg »

Indeed you were.
User avatar
LuckyR
Moderator
Posts: 7932
Joined: January 18th, 2015, 1:16 am

Re: Is There Another Force Besides Natural Selection?

Post by LuckyR »

ThomasHobbes wrote: October 7th, 2018, 5:27 am
LuckyR wrote: October 3rd, 2018, 6:16 pm I don't believe this thread has even scratched the surface of horizontal gene transfer (or lateral gene transfer)
Microbes are not as sexy as macro-organisms.
Microbes? The ability of mammals to gestate using placentas is of retro-viral origin, not mammalian origin.
"As usual... it depends."
User avatar
ThomasHobbes
Posts: 1122
Joined: May 5th, 2018, 5:53 pm

Re: Is There Another Force Besides Natural Selection?

Post by ThomasHobbes »

LuckyR wrote: October 11th, 2018, 11:59 am
ThomasHobbes wrote: October 7th, 2018, 5:27 am

Microbes are not as sexy as macro-organisms.
Microbes? The ability of mammals to gestate using placentas is of retro-viral origin, not mammalian origin.
Prove it!
User avatar
Burning ghost
Posts: 3065
Joined: February 27th, 2016, 3:10 am

Re: Is There Another Force Besides Natural Selection?

Post by Burning ghost »

Thread LOCKED and splitting the last post off because I was waiting for someone to bring this up before stepping in:

Continued here: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=15863

With the more appropriate title of “The Complexity of Evolution”.
AKA badgerjelly
Locked

Return to “Philosophy of Science”

2023/2024 Philosophy Books of the Month

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise
by John K Danenbarger
January 2023

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul
by Mitzi Perdue
February 2023

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness
by Chet Shupe
March 2023

The Unfakeable Code®

The Unfakeable Code®
by Tony Jeton Selimi
April 2023

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are
by Alan Watts
May 2023

Killing Abel

Killing Abel
by Michael Tieman
June 2023

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead
by E. Alan Fleischauer
July 2023

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough
by Mark Unger
August 2023

Predictably Irrational

Predictably Irrational
by Dan Ariely
September 2023

Artwords

Artwords
by Beatriz M. Robles
November 2023

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope
by Dr. Randy Ross
December 2023

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes
by Ali Master
February 2024

2022 Philosophy Books of the Month

Emotional Intelligence At Work

Emotional Intelligence At Work
by Richard M Contino & Penelope J Holt
January 2022

Free Will, Do You Have It?

Free Will, Do You Have It?
by Albertus Kral
February 2022

My Enemy in Vietnam

My Enemy in Vietnam
by Billy Springer
March 2022

2X2 on the Ark

2X2 on the Ark
by Mary J Giuffra, PhD
April 2022

The Maestro Monologue

The Maestro Monologue
by Rob White
May 2022

What Makes America Great

What Makes America Great
by Bob Dowell
June 2022

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!
by Jerry Durr
July 2022

Living in Color

Living in Color
by Mike Murphy
August 2022 (tentative)

The Not So Great American Novel

The Not So Great American Novel
by James E Doucette
September 2022

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches
by John N. (Jake) Ferris
October 2022

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All
by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
November 2022

The Smartest Person in the Room: The Root Cause and New Solution for Cybersecurity

The Smartest Person in the Room
by Christian Espinosa
December 2022

2021 Philosophy Books of the Month

The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God's Plan

The Biblical Clock
by Daniel Friedmann
March 2021

Wilderness Cry: A Scientific and Philosophical Approach to Understanding God and the Universe

Wilderness Cry
by Dr. Hilary L Hunt M.D.
April 2021

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute: Tools To Spark Your Dream And Ignite Your Follow-Through

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute
by Jeff Meyer
May 2021

Surviving the Business of Healthcare: Knowledge is Power

Surviving the Business of Healthcare
by Barbara Galutia Regis M.S. PA-C
June 2021

Winning the War on Cancer: The Epic Journey Towards a Natural Cure

Winning the War on Cancer
by Sylvie Beljanski
July 2021

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream
by Dr Frank L Douglas
August 2021

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts
by Mark L. Wdowiak
September 2021

The Preppers Medical Handbook

The Preppers Medical Handbook
by Dr. William W Forgey M.D.
October 2021

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress: A Practical Guide

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress
by Dr. Gustavo Kinrys, MD
November 2021

Dream For Peace: An Ambassador Memoir

Dream For Peace
by Dr. Ghoulem Berrah
December 2021