Climate change is a fraud

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Re: Climate change is a fraud

Post by Greta » November 15th, 2017, 10:36 pm

Steve3007 wrote:The snag is that they tend to be large scale collective, cooperative actions with relatively long-term goals. These are actions that need governments to succeed, because free markets are, by their nature, concerned with short-term local goals. So the required actions become victims of blind political ideology and populism. In this case, the ideology is that all government is bad. Factual information then gets portrayed as political agenda. Work to combat climate change gets portrayed as an excuse for socialism. etc.
I have been surprised by the way climate change has become a political issue. The problem is that there is no person more hated by conservatives than a sanctimonious, tree hugging green. The problem for conservatives is that the tree huggers were actually right. That is an intolerable situation for conservatives. If they admit that the greens were right then, given the scale and importance of the issue, they would lose credibility forever. So they look for an out - and find it in the dodgy science being spread by fossil fuel companies and the Murdoch media (Rupert being on a board of an major US oil company).

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Re: Climate change is a fraud

Post by Namelesss » November 16th, 2017, 9:28 pm

Quoting some crackpot who flies in the face of all Knowledge and data does little for your own credibility.
Vote for Trump?

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Re: Climate change is a fraud

Post by Steve3007 » November 17th, 2017, 4:13 am

Nameless: Who is doing this quoting that you speak of? And which crackpot are they quoting?

In order to make sense you have to name names Nameless.
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it is because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea." - Eric Cantona.

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Re: Climate change is a fraud

Post by Greta » November 17th, 2017, 6:25 pm

I wondered that. I think he is responding directly to the OP (albeit a few years late).

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Re: Climate change is a fraud

Post by Namelesss » November 17th, 2017, 9:06 pm

Steve3007 wrote:Nameless: Who is doing this quoting that you speak of? And which crackpot are they quoting?

In order to make sense you have to name names Nameless.
The names of all the scientists and climatologists and general public with eyes to see and a functioning mind do not question 'global warming'.
The data makes it a 'fact'.
Those who question are the crackpots, the flat Earthers!
2+2=4! Sometimes it is other than 4, but it is also 4!
I wondered that. I think he is responding directly to the OP (albeit a few years late).
Why is there even posts that old available for response? What a waste.
Oh well, if the OP is long dead, my words continue to live! *__-

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Re: Climate change is a fraud

Post by Steve3007 » November 18th, 2017, 3:53 am

Topics are often exhumed. Nothing wrong with that. Actually, I exhumed this one myself a few months ago, at post #264:

onlinephilosophyclub.com/forums/viewtop ... 45#p292645

after it had been untouched for 3 years. It was an attempt to start a conversation on this subject with a poster called Razblo who had offered various opinions as to why man-made climate change is not a problem and is a cunning ploy by the sinister forces of big government. You know, that old one.

He was saying this stuff on a post which was not about climate change. Digging up and recycling an old more appropriate topic rather than starting a new one was just my way of helping to save the planet. In that post I set out my understanding of Razblo's points and suggested we discuss them rationally one by one. Sadly he declined and opted to just say that Al Gore has a big house (post #273) therefore climate change is a myth peddled by the sinister deep-state, socialist, marxist forces of sinister big govermnent. You know, that old one.

Anyway, the original poster, DarwinX now appears to be long gone. He was a colourful character. His trademark was to create loads of topics with titles of the form "X is a fraud" where 'X' was a very wide variety of things.
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it is because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea." - Eric Cantona.

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Re: Climate change is a fraud

Post by Razblo » November 19th, 2017, 4:43 am

Steve3007 wrote:Topics are often exhumed. Nothing wrong with that. Actually, I exhumed this one myself a few months ago, at post #264:

onlinephilosophyclub.com/forums/viewtop ... 45#p292645

after it had been untouched for 3 years. It was an attempt to start a conversation on this subject with a poster called Razblo who had offered various opinions as to why man-made climate change is not a problem and is a cunning ploy by the sinister forces of big government. You know, that old one.

He was saying this stuff on a post which was not about climate change. Digging up and recycling an old more appropriate topic rather than starting a new one was just my way of helping to save the planet. In that post I set out my understanding of Razblo's points and suggested we discuss them rationally one by one. Sadly he declined and opted to just say that Al Gore has a big house (post #273) therefore climate change is a myth peddled by the sinister deep-state, socialist, marxist forces of sinister big govermnent. You know, that old one.

Anyway, the original poster, DarwinX now appears to be long gone. He was a colourful character. His trademark was to create loads of topics with titles of the form "X is a fraud" where 'X' was a very wide variety of things.
"Sadly he declined and opted to just say that Al Gore has a big house (post #273) therefore climate change is a myth peddled..."

This was not said therefore this is your peddling.

The myth/theory, however, is that a warming climate follows a rise of Co2 levels. It is not measurable against a hypothesis that the climate may well warm thereby creating a rise in co2. Chicken or egg. The latter means looking elsewhere such as sun activity. But then it will not be so easy for corporations to make money from the latter. 'Climate Change/global warming' has become like any other fraudulent religion business model of utilizing human capacity for guilt, shame and fear.

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Re: Climate change is a fraud

Post by Londoner » November 19th, 2017, 6:28 am

Razblo wrote: The myth/theory, however, is that a warming climate follows a rise of Co2 levels. It is not measurable against a hypothesis that the climate may well warm thereby creating a rise in co2. Chicken or egg. The latter means looking elsewhere such as sun activity. But then it will not be so easy for corporations to make money from the latter. 'Climate Change/global warming' has become like any other fraudulent religion business model of utilizing human capacity for guilt, shame and fear.
Certainly a warming climate will create a rise in CO2. The CO2 released will then cause further warming. That is what we are concerned about; that a small increase in temperature caused by human release of CO2 will trigger a release of other 'natural' CO2 that will have a large effect.

We know that the current rise in CO2 is man made, rather than the result of warming from some other source, because of the type of carbon. Also the solar cycles do not match current observations of warming.

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Re: Climate change is a fraud

Post by Steve3007 » November 19th, 2017, 6:43 am

Razblo:
This was not said therefore this is your peddling.
What was said:

Razblo in post #273:
The home of former vice-president and climate change activist Al Gore burns 34 times more electricity than the average American household, a report from National Center for Public Policy Research has revealed.
According to the report, Gore’s energy use at his 10,070-square-foot Colonial-style home in the upmarket Belle Meade neighborhood of Nashville averages 19,241-kilowatt hours (kWh) a month, compared to the U.S. household average of 901 kWh per month.

Over the past year, Gore has used more energy than the average American family does in 21 years, and has an enormous energy bill of $22,000 a year.
"Al Gore has a big house" is a pretty reasonable summary of the above claims.

It's true that there was no clear conclusion explicitly drawn from that statement - no explicit indication as to why you might say it. So it's left up to the reader to wonder why you would mention it at this point. I guess they might conclude that you're presenting it as support for your general point about climate change. So my earlier summary of your point: "Al Gore has a big house (post #273) therefore climate change is a myth..." seems not unreasonable. I guess the other alternative is that you just decided to randomly say it for no reason.
However, that money is pocket change compared to his estimated net worth of $300 million, which he has acquired through years of corporate speeches, documentary films, and book deals.
I suppose this other assertion that Al Gore is very rich, and that the wealth results from various climate-change related activities, seeks to assert vested interest in peddling what you would regard as lies. I think a reasonable summary of this one would be "follow the money."
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it is because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea." - Eric Cantona.

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Re: Climate change is a fraud

Post by Eduk » November 19th, 2017, 7:52 am

I know of no conspiracy theories which are correct and go against the scientific consensus.

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Re: Climate change is a fraud

Post by Steve3007 » November 19th, 2017, 5:59 pm

Actually, the "Al Gore has a big house" quote is a bit inconsistent, now I come to think of it. At the start, it says he uses 34 times more electricity than the average US house. But at the end it says the ratio is 21.
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it is because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea." - Eric Cantona.

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Re: Climate change is a fraud

Post by Razblo » November 20th, 2017, 2:44 am

Steve3007 wrote:Razblo:
This was not said therefore this is your peddling.
What was said:

Razblo in post #273:
The home of former vice-president and climate change activist Al Gore burns 34 times more electricity than the average American household, a report from National Center for Public Policy Research has revealed.
According to the report, Gore’s energy use at his 10,070-square-foot Colonial-style home in the upmarket Belle Meade neighborhood of Nashville averages 19,241-kilowatt hours (kWh) a month, compared to the U.S. household average of 901 kWh per month.

Over the past year, Gore has used more energy than the average American family does in 21 years, and has an enormous energy bill of $22,000 a year.
"Al Gore has a big house" is a pretty reasonable summary of the above claims.

It's true that there was no clear conclusion explicitly drawn from that statement - no explicit indication as to why you might say it. So it's left up to the reader to wonder why you would mention it at this point. I guess they might conclude that you're presenting it as support for your general point about climate change. So my earlier summary of your point: "Al Gore has a big house (post #273) therefore climate change is a myth..." seems not unreasonable. I guess the other alternative is that you just decided to randomly say it for no reason.
However, that money is pocket change compared to his estimated net worth of $300 million, which he has acquired through years of corporate speeches, documentary films, and book deals.
I suppose this other assertion that Al Gore is very rich, and that the wealth results from various climate-change related activities, seeks to assert vested interest in peddling what you would regard as lies. I think a reasonable summary of this one would be "follow the money."
To say I said the reason global warming theory is a fraud is because Al Gore is a fraud is indeed peddling a fraud.

Al Gore is a fraudster on the basis that he does not appear interested in the slightest about his own fossil fuel use. He is like the priest who preaches to his flock about sexual abstinence outside of marriage while he himself engages in sexual affairs.

As a multi millionaire it is very easy for him to be totally off grid and still have every electric convenience and luxury. There are millionaires around the world who live such luxury off grid of which I have seen in luxury home magazine television shows.

-- Updated November 20th, 2017, 2:50 am to add the following --
Londoner wrote:

Certainly a warming climate will create a rise in CO2. The CO2 released will then cause further warming. That is what we are concerned about; that a small increase in temperature caused by human release of CO2 will trigger a release of other 'natural' CO2 that will have a large effect.

We know that the current rise in CO2 is man made, rather than the result of warming from some other source, because of the type of carbon. Also the solar cycles do not match current observations of warming.
Sudden or spontaneous explosive sun activity is not necessarily a 'solar cycle', therefore something predictable as 'cycles' are.

It is theorized and believed in as true that CO2 rise is entirely man made. Like many religions it is a great business model.

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Re: Climate change is a fraud

Post by Londoner » November 20th, 2017, 4:29 am

Razblo wrote: Sudden or spontaneous explosive sun activity is not necessarily a 'solar cycle', therefore something predictable as 'cycles' are.

It is theorized and believed in as true that CO2 rise is entirely man made. Like many religions it is a great business model.
We can observe solar activity. It does not correlate with what is happening.

We can tell the increasing levels of CO2 in the atmosphere are man made because not all carbon is the same. There are different isotopes released when we burn fuel.

But you could have found this stuff out yourself if you were sincerely interested.

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Re: Climate change is a fraud

Post by Steve3007 » November 20th, 2017, 4:33 am

Razblo:
To say I said the reason global warming theory is a fraud is because Al Gore is a fraud is indeed peddling a fraud.
You posted your assertion that Al Gore is a fraud on a topic entitled "Climate Change is a Fraud", and it's clear from your other posts that you believe the latter (i.e. you believe that the extent to which man made climate change is claimed to happen is a lie with various ulterior motives). So the natural conclusion is that you see the former as supporting evidence for the latter, and that's why you said it. If that wasn't your intention, and your assertions about Al Gore have nothing to do with Climate Change, it might be a good idea to start a new topic entitled "Al Gore has a big house that uses a lot of electricity and it would actually be possible for him to have a small house or to have a big house with solar panels on the roof and wind turbines and stuff. But I'm not saying anything about climate change by saying this."

(Apologies for posting this peripheral post straight after your more centrally relevant post Londoner.)
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Re: Climate change is a fraud

Post by Razblo » November 20th, 2017, 4:36 am

Londoner wrote:
Razblo wrote: Sudden or spontaneous explosive sun activity is not necessarily a 'solar cycle', therefore something predictable as 'cycles' are.

It is theorized and believed in as true that CO2 rise is entirely man made. Like many religions it is a great business model.
We can observe solar activity. It does not correlate with what is happening.

We can tell the increasing levels of CO2 in the atmosphere are man made because not all carbon is the same. There are different isotopes released when we burn fuel.

But you could have found this stuff out yourself if you were sincerely interested.
"Certainly a warming climate will create a rise in CO2. The CO2 released will then cause further warming.."

It is still a chicken or egg scenario, as you outlined in the above. Also, the current levels of CO2 are not sufficient to be of consequence anyway. The narrative that it is is merely part and parcel of the fraud.

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