Climate change is a fraud

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Steve3007
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Re: Climate change is a fraud

Post by Steve3007 » November 20th, 2017, 4:39 am

Razblo:
Also, the current levels of CO2 are not sufficient to be of consequence anyway.
How do you know? You've stated previously that there is no such thing as the science of climate. Yet here you appear to be claiming some knowledge of some results from that subject.
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it is because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea." - Eric Cantona.

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Razblo
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Re: Climate change is a fraud

Post by Razblo » November 20th, 2017, 4:46 am

Steve3007 wrote:Razblo:
To say I said the reason global warming theory is a fraud is because Al Gore is a fraud is indeed peddling a fraud.
You posted your assertion that Al Gore is a fraud on a topic entitled "Climate Change is a Fraud", and it's clear from your other posts that you believe the latter (i.e. you believe that the extent to which man made climate change is claimed to happen is a lie with various ulterior motives). So the natural conclusion is that you see the former as supporting evidence for the latter, and that's why you said it. If that wasn't your intention, and your assertions about Al Gore have nothing to do with Climate Change, it might be a good idea to start a new topic entitled "Al Gore has a big house that uses a lot of electricity and it would actually be possible for him to have a small house or to have a big house with solar panels on the roof and wind turbines and stuff. But I'm not saying anything about climate change by saying this."

(Apologies for posting this peripheral post straight after your more centrally relevant post Londoner.)
In case it wasn't clear enough for you previously, I have just clarified further in my last reply. No need for another thread to say the same thing as I have just previously said. It should no longer be mysterious as to my motive of exposing the hypocrisy of Gore. Within "Climate change is a fraud", within a fraud, therefore, there must be fraudsters. I merely rate Al Gore as one of the cabal members.

-- Updated November 20th, 2017, 4:51 am to add the following --
Steve3007 wrote:Razblo:
Also, the current levels of CO2 are not sufficient to be of consequence anyway.
How do you know? You've stated previously that there is no such thing as the science of climate. Yet here you appear to be claiming some knowledge of some results from that subject.
Because 'climate' is such a multi factor which renders current CO2 levels insignificant particularly when compared to dramatic climate events during historic eras of negligible fossil fuel consumption and low population.

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Re: Climate change is a fraud

Post by Eduk » November 20th, 2017, 4:57 am

To say I said the reason global warming theory is a fraud is because Al Gore is a fraud is indeed peddling a fraud.
Now I may be wrong. But I didn't take Steve's comments literally. I assumed he was simply mocking you (Razblo). Probably partly out of frustration that 'talking' to you doesn't seem to get anywhere and, I would guess, also to highlight the disconnected and irrelevant comments you are making and the ludicrousness of attempting to connect them. I could be wrong of course, that is simply my best guess.
Saying corporations can make money out of something so therefore it is false seems to fly in the face of the evidence to me. I own a computer and drive a car (just as two examples) which I bought off of corporations for money and they both work pretty well. This ignores the elephant in the room where historical evidence shows companies which don't mind to pollute (or cut corners in general) make a good deal more money than those acting responsibly. Lowering emissions is clearly more expensive than not lowering them, so in this case the 'money' is clearly against anthropomorphic climate change. Not that that proves anything.
I have a shortcut that works even better than 'following the money'. It's called the scientific consensus. In my experience only ideological fanatics can ignore the scientific consensus while raising irrelevant points. My suggestion to Razlo is to publish his climatology papers, get his Nobel prize and be remembered for many many years as a great hero of science. Or, and this is less likely than the previous suggestion, maybe develop a tiny amount of humility based on the fact that you know next to nothing about climatology.

-- Updated November 20th, 2017, 5:15 am to add the following --

Let me try to put it another way. Nasa (so beloved of conspiracy theorists such as flat earthers) has a great website on climate change. This is a quote from them
The current warming trend is of particular significance because most of it is extremely likely (greater than 95 percent probability) to be the result of human activity
So there is a 5% chance that the current warming trend is not the result of human activity.

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Re: Climate change is a fraud

Post by Steve3007 » November 20th, 2017, 5:23 am

Eduk:
Now I may be wrong. But I didn't take Steve's comments literally. I assumed he was simply mocking you (Razblo).
No, I wasn't mocking him. Merely summarising his words. My summary was "Al Gore has a big house therefore climate change is a fraud". Razblo has now corrected me. The summary should have been: "Al Gore has a big house and this, in my (Razbo's) view, forms part of the evidence leading to the conclusion that climate change is a fraud."

As you (Eduk) have indicated, by way of examples, the cry of "hypocrite!" is a distraction technique that is often used on this and other subjects. (Private versus publicly funded education is another place where it is often used.) I myself drove to work a few minutes ago. I could have cycled, but it was cold and raining and I didn't want to. The person using this distraction technique would then tell me that I am not allowed to argue in favour of measures to reduce carbon emissions. Same principle, but on a bigger scale, with the critics of Al Gore.


Razblo:
Because 'climate' is such a multi factor which renders current CO2 levels insignificant particularly when compared to dramatic climate events during historic eras of negligible fossil fuel consumption and low population.
The only way that you can claim that as a fact is if you have researched the methods, evidence and results of some of the climate science which you've previously claimed doesn't exist. The question is: What warming effect would the amount of CO2 so far released into the atmosphere due to the burning of fossil fuels have? You appear to disagree with the answer given to that question by lots of people who have researched the subject. Therefore you must have researched the subject yourself. Will you share this research? Or is it just an assertion?
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it is because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea." - Eric Cantona.

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Razblo
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Re: Climate change is a fraud

Post by Razblo » November 20th, 2017, 7:01 am

Eduk wrote:

Let me try to put it another way. Nasa (so beloved of conspiracy theorists such as flat earthers) has a great website on climate change. This is a quote from them
The current warming trend is of particular significance because most of it is extremely likely (greater than 95 percent probability) to be the result of human activity
So there is a 5% chance that the current warming trend is not the result of human activity.
Nasa is corporatized. Even 65% of US intelligence agencies are private corporate entities. This has been the way things have been heading for decades. You're asleep.

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Re: Climate change is a fraud

Post by Eduk » November 20th, 2017, 7:19 am

One of my fish has been lying on its side on the bottom of my pond for a long time. Like months. It's amazing as I thought it was going to die ages ago. I've never seen anything like it. I don't really know much about fish but every fish I've seen lying on its side didn't have long left to live.

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Re: Climate change is a fraud

Post by Steve3007 » November 20th, 2017, 7:22 am

I'm guessing this is some kind of parable about evidence, Eduk?

-- Updated Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:46 pm to add the following --

Or about irrelevance? I'm intrigued to know which it is.

By the way, I thought I was a bad fish custodian for not cleaning the tank enough, but leaving the fish on the bottom of the tank for months? That's terrible.

-- Updated Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:01 pm to add the following --

Maybe it's about aquatic life dying and falling to the bottom of the oceans to form fossil fuels?

-- Updated Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:23 pm to add the following --

If you leave that fish there another few million years you might be able to build a little oil rig in your fish tank. A la North Sea.
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it is because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea." - Eric Cantona.

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Re: Climate change is a fraud

Post by Londoner » November 20th, 2017, 8:30 am

Razblo wrote: "Certainly a warming climate will create a rise in CO2. The CO2 released will then cause further warming.."

It is still a chicken or egg scenario, as you outlined in the above. Also, the current levels of CO2 are not sufficient to be of consequence anyway. The narrative that it is is merely part and parcel of the fraud.
Let's take it slowly. First, you are simply wrong about current levels of CO2 not being significant to have consequences. But let's tackle your problem with what you think is a chicken-and-egg scenario.

1) Increased levels of CO2 (from all sources) are likely to cause increased temperatures.

2) CO2 can be increased in more than one way. For example, by humans burning fossil fuels but also by the destruction of various things that currently act as sinks for CO2.

3) So the small increase of CO2 caused by humans burning fossil fuels can create a small warming that destroys the various things that act as sinks for CO2 and thus lead to a larger warming.

There are other ways in which the warming is likely to trigger larger changes, but we should keep it very simple for now. I find it really hard to understand why you cannot get it.

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Re: Climate change is a fraud

Post by Eduk » November 20th, 2017, 8:48 am

I find it really hard to understand why you cannot get it.
Intellectually it's entirely predictable. But emotionally I don't get it either. Sometimes I look at humanity and question if I'm looking at conscious life or simply the face of a clock. I guess we are both, but still scary for me to imagine the clock side.
I'm guessing this is some kind of parable about evidence, Eduk?

-- Updated Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:46 pm to add the following --

Or about irrelevance? I'm intrigued to know which it is.
Lol :) Yes it started as an irrelevance but was then strangely pursuant. I'm not sure if that's random chance or I should be giving my unconsciousness some credit :)

-- Updated November 20th, 2017, 8:51 am to add the following --
By the way, I thought I was a bad fish custodian for not cleaning the tank enough, but leaving the fish on the bottom of the tank for months? That's terrible.
:) I poke it occasionally and it swims about. I have questioned his quality of life but come to the assumption that it probably still values its life. I could be wrong but it seems better to me to err on the side of caution.

Steve3007
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Re: Climate change is a fraud

Post by Steve3007 » November 20th, 2017, 8:57 am

Fair enough. Who's life is it anyway, eh? And it probably costs a lot of money to have a fish sent to Switzerland. Not to mention the CO2 emissions.
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it is because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea." - Eric Cantona.

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Razblo
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Re: Climate change is a fraud

Post by Razblo » November 21st, 2017, 12:34 am

Londoner wrote:
Razblo wrote: "Certainly a warming climate will create a rise in CO2. The CO2 released will then cause further warming.."

It is still a chicken or egg scenario, as you outlined in the above. Also, the current levels of CO2 are not sufficient to be of consequence anyway. The narrative that it is is merely part and parcel of the fraud.
Let's take it slowly. First, you are simply wrong about current levels of CO2 not being significant to have consequences. But let's tackle your problem with what you think is a chicken-and-egg scenario.

1) Increased levels of CO2 (from all sources) are likely to cause increased temperatures.

2) CO2 can be increased in more than one way. For example, by humans burning fossil fuels but also by the destruction of various things that currently act as sinks for CO2.

3) So the small increase of CO2 caused by humans burning fossil fuels can create a small warming that destroys the various things that act as sinks for CO2 and thus lead to a larger warming.

There are other ways in which the warming is likely to trigger larger changes, but we should keep it very simple for now. I find it really hard to understand why you cannot get it.

-- Updated November 21st, 2017, 12:42 am to add the following --
Londoner wrote:
Razblo wrote: "Certainly a warming climate will create a rise in CO2. The CO2 released will then cause further warming.."

It is still a chicken or egg scenario, as you outlined in the above. Also, the current levels of CO2 are not sufficient to be of consequence anyway. The narrative that it is is merely part and parcel of the fraud.
Let's take it slowly. First, you are simply wrong about current levels of CO2 not being significant to have consequences. But let's tackle your problem with what you think is a chicken-and-egg scenario.

1) Increased levels of CO2 (from all sources) are likely to cause increased temperatures.

2) CO2 can be increased in more than one way. For example, by humans burning fossil fuels but also by the destruction of various things that currently act as sinks for CO2.

3) So the small increase of CO2 caused by humans burning fossil fuels can create a small warming that destroys the various things that act as sinks for CO2 and thus lead to a larger warming.

There are other ways in which the warming is likely to trigger larger changes, but we should keep it very simple for now. I find it really hard to understand why you cannot get it.
I argue that you find it hard to understand that I "cannot get it" due to the degree of your religious indoctrination.

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Re: Climate change is a fraud

Post by Greta » November 21st, 2017, 1:47 am

Razblo, I'd be interested to know about the great conspiracy that spawned this "climate change religion".

Is it due to the Reptilians, the Greys, the Illuminati, Communists, Greenies or the Obama-Clinton Secret Islamic Mafia?

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Re: Climate change is a fraud

Post by Steve3007 » November 21st, 2017, 3:26 am

Razblo:
I argue that you find it hard to understand that I "cannot get it" due to the degree of your religious indoctrination.
That's not an argument. An argument would be if you addressed what Londoner actually said, and presented your evidence supporting your assertion that the amount of CO2 contributed to the atmosphere by human activity has not/will not increase the global average temperature by the amount predicted by people who have studied the subject. Since you've made that assertion, you must have studied the subject and perhaps done some research of your own. You may be right. But we're not going to know whether you're right if you simply confine yourself to telling people about their alleged religious beliefs.
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it is because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea." - Eric Cantona.

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Re: Climate change is a fraud

Post by Atreyu » November 21st, 2017, 7:19 pm

The "big conspiracy" which has lead to the ideology of "climate change" and the call for Man to combat it, is simply the fact that people, including scientists themselves, have a tendency to regard science as more exact, precise, and reliable than it really is.

This "conspiracy", or rather this "mass madness', which affects modern man, can best be seen by analyzing 10 day weather forecasts, particularly live ones. In them, one can painfully and acutely see the inability of man to acknowledge the limitations of his theories and calculations, i.e. of himself...

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Re: Climate change is a fraud

Post by Steve3007 » November 21st, 2017, 7:23 pm

Atreyu, why do you keep confusing weather with climate?

-- Updated Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:25 am to add the following --

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"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it is because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea." - Eric Cantona.

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