Spoon sex?

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PaulNZ
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Spoon sex?

Post by PaulNZ » October 17th, 2014, 3:05 pm

This has puzzled me for a while and I was hoping to hear one or two opinions from outside my own head in order that I might park it up for a while.

I like my spoon, quite a lot. I like other spoons like it, a particular fork, some knives over other knives and particular shaped bowls. We have a selection in our kitchen of a variety of each because we lose things and break the occasional piece of crockery. I find certain forms pleasing over others. I don't try to, I'm not even sure it is conscious, in fact I think it is quite the opposite. I have only noticed when I caught myself washing a particular spoon of a particular shape rather than use one of many other different shaped spoons in the drawer.

Why?

I have decided I am unconsciously attracted to some ratios of proportion or forms over others and find the use of them pleasing or comforting in some way (there is a reward for my brain of some sort but I'm not sure quite what!)

My thinking at this time is that it is related to finding a mate and evolution has built this into my crocodile brain to somehow be attracted to certain proportions, ratios or forms for that purpose.

I then wondered if our appreciation of art and reason for finding art pleasing, when it relates to proportions, ratios or forms is simply an evolutionary extension of our need to reproduce?

Any thoughts?

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Re: Spoon sex?

Post by Scott » October 17th, 2014, 4:12 pm

Why?

I have decided I am unconsciously attracted to some ratios of proportion or forms over others and find the use of them pleasing or comforting in some way (there is a reward for my brain of some sort but I'm not sure quite what!)

My thinking at this time is that it is related to finding a mate and evolution has built this into my crocodile brain to somehow be attracted to certain proportions, ratios or forms for that purpose.
Your speculation is quite interesting. It is quite possibly a partial if not the main cause of the attraction you describe. It reminds me of the way it is known that babies and toddlers are attracted to power outets (at least USA-style ones) because they resemble a face in a very rudimentary way.

However, the possibility of an explanation being true is not evidence that it is actually true or a valid theory.

If this is to be taken as an actual hypothesis, it needs to be testable in some way. How can we validate this wouldbe hypothesis?
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Re: Spoon sex?

Post by PaulNZ » October 17th, 2014, 6:09 pm

Scott said

"However, the possibility of an explanation being true is not evidence that it is actually true or a valid theory."

Quite true and my OP was pure speculation based on my own behaviour. This could be a cognitive bias such as the "Halo effect", which is a form of confirmation bias. That particular bias causes individuals to see the good in what is being said by a particular person because they find them attractive (in laymans terms). The bias is a problem for the judiciary in how it effects the juries perception of evidence based on appearance, status, or wealth, things of that nature. The bias is also used and exploited in marketing of products.

I'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination but I suspect the answers could be tied up with this type of psychological phenomenon. In relation to research about this particular bias, there is plenty just Google search for it. I can't find a link to a theory linking it to the process of reproduction but attractiveness and reproduction obviously go hand in hand in terms of finding a mate.

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Re: Spoon sex?

Post by Cogito ergo sum » October 17th, 2014, 9:37 pm

Aristotle went over this and came to a conclusion that certain types of objects because of there proportion cannot be beautiful or pleasing. So for example a very large or very small object cannot be beautiful. And from what I have understood from my interpretation of Kants views of what the difference is between the beautiful and the sublime would be exactly that. Nature cannot be beautiful in observing it. It is to vast it is mathematically large and mighty. So when you are in nature you cannot comprehend the size and might of nature so you become fearful not nessesarily afraid but fearful of its might. Now when reflecting on what you have seen which in that moment of observing you might misjudge it and claim that it was or is beautiful. That is not the case it is sublime only in the sense that when you go into your own mental faculties thinking about what you have observed you turn back in on yourself and shrink the might and size of nature and your limitless mind overcomes the fearfulness you had while observing. You then and only then can find it beautiful because you have given it a proportion that can be beautiful. But to go back to your spoon and your topic I would imagine that yes we would find certain proportions pleasing and good when finding a mate. What would happen if a man was and only was attracted and found a female form pleasing and beautiful if she was a thousand feet tall? It would be counter productive I assume.

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Re: Spoon sex?

Post by PaulNZ » October 17th, 2014, 10:19 pm

I do not wish to have sex with the particular spoon, but I do find its form more pleasing than other spoons. When I examine what I like about the spoon consciously I believe it is the shape I find pleasing, but my preferred use of it seems to happen unconsciously, until I shine the light of consciouss thought on it. Why do I find pleasure/comfort/security (however you want to describe the feeling) in the form of a spoon?

I think evolution has programmed my brain to recognise patterns, ratios and forms in my environment and differentiate between them in order to find a preference. My preference at an unconscious level for a particular shape of spoon suggests that there is reward in some way in my brain to influence my choice of spoon. Could this inherrent psychological phenomenon be related to the process of finding a mate, the reproductive process? Is appreciation of art, the pleasure we derrive from looking at art, related at its root to reproduction?

Like Scott said, is there any way of making a reasoned argument for a link between reproduction and art?

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Re: Spoon sex?

Post by The Beast » October 18th, 2014, 11:55 am

There is lots of research on shapes and colors. Eliciting a description of your favorite spoon is describing yourself to the world, round or elongated; small or big; silver or wood. Delicate with engravings or plain and simple. If I was a machinist a tool is a representation of it’s function and each function has an specialized tool. Just imagine a tall dessert glass in a painting with a big rounded short spoon… and the spoon is made of wood. Is all wrong!!!

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Re: Spoon sex?

Post by PaulNZ » October 18th, 2014, 3:57 pm

The Beast wrote:There is lots of research on shapes and colors. Eliciting a description of your favorite spoon is describing yourself to the world, round or elongated; small or big; silver or wood. Delicate with engravings or plain and simple. If I was a machinist a tool is a representation of it’s function and each function has an specialized tool. Just imagine a tall dessert glass in a painting with a big rounded short spoon… and the spoon is made of wood. Is all wrong!!!
I wouldn't mind reading an executive summary on some of that research. I think when I describe my favourite spoon I am giving context to what it is to be me, I agree, but the unconscious preference of one spoon over another does not fit under that descriptor.

Choice we are finding in recent years is driven firstly by emotion/intuition and only secondly does the strategic reasoning of the conscious mind get applied - usually to support the position of the emotional decision whether right or wrong according to the likes of Jonathan Haidt, Daniel Kaneman and others. Their research would tend to suggest when we make a choice about what we prefer or what is attractive or good or bad, it is made firstly unconsciously at an emotional/intuitive level. I think this is where my spoon attraction comes from.

What could be the (emotional) evolutionary programming of my unconscious mind causing me to choose one spoon over another? The same programming would apply to the appreciation of art wouldn't it? What pleases me and what doesn't in terms of connection and attractiveness?

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Re: Spoon sex?

Post by The Beast » October 19th, 2014, 12:48 pm

Spoons look like fish. This comes from old Gnostic and alchemical meaning. A Dragon quest: “this little fish is small, alone and unique in its shape, but the sea is great and vast and hence it is impossible for those to catch it who do not know in what part of the world it dwells”

-- Updated October 19th, 2014, 12:51 pm to add the following --
The Beast wrote:Spoons look like fish. This comes from old Gnostic and alchemical meaning. A Dragon's quest: “this little fish is small, alone and unique in its shape, but the sea is great and vast and hence it is impossible for those to catch it who do not know in what part of the world it dwells”

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Re: Spoon sex?

Post by Harbal » October 24th, 2014, 6:06 pm

I can tell you from experience that your spoon will never return your affection. I think you would be wiser to direct your efforts towards finding a woman. If you could find one that looks like a spoon, so much the better, then you would have the best of both worlds. Whatever else you do, I think you really need to stay away from the cutlery draw.

-- Updated October 24th, 2014, 11:08 pm to add the following --

I can tell you from experience that your spoon will never return your affection. I think you would be wiser to direct your efforts towards finding a woman. If you could find one that looks like a spoon, so much the better, then you would have the best of both worlds. Whatever else you do, I think you really need to stay away from the cutlery draw.

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Re: Spoon sex?

Post by PaulNZ » October 24th, 2014, 8:26 pm

It annoys my wife that I have an absurd preference for a particular shape of spoon, because if she gives me a spoon and it isn't one of my favoured shaped spoons, I go and find one that I like. I imagined a flurry of reasoned posts about attraction to form and proportion and where that might come from. It seems few people identify with my thing for spoons, so I appreciate your comments based on expererience Harbal.

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Re: Spoon sex?

Post by Harbal » October 25th, 2014, 3:21 am

Actually, I can easily appreciate your preference for objects of a particular form and proportion, I experience it myself, albeit not to the same extent that you do and not particularly with cutlery. I am aware that spoons do vary in shape but, to me, they are all too similar for me to be able to discriminate between them. Speaking as a non aficionado of the spoon, I can't quite imagine what you see in them.

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Re: Spoon sex?

Post by PaulNZ » October 31st, 2014, 4:24 pm

We all have preferences for a particular shape, feel, weight, proportion etc in objects that are the same in type and function, but differ in other ways. My specualtion is that the preference or attraction to particular shapes, texture, proportion etc is rooted in our drive to find a mate for the purpose of reproducing and that this in turn is where our appreciation for art is rooted.

As Scott says, interesting but hard to prove beyond simply stating it. I can carry out experiments, which will likely show this innate subconscious attraction to one form in a type of item over another. But how can I demonstrate or argue this attraction or preference in a rudimentary way is linked to the need to find a mate to reproduce?

The preference or attraction we have for one thing over another is about the factors previously mentioned and many others not mentioned such as funtionality. I would also argue that it is our hormonal response to these objects or a potential mate which differs when subconsciously choosing between objects. I don't feel aroused in any way when I choose my preferred spoon (you'll be relieved to hear) but that is because I am not sexually attracted to the spoon - I feel secure, or satisfied. I might use similar criteria in a very broad sense for choosing the spoon as I do when choosing a mate - shape, proportion, form, weight, functionality (fit for purpose) etc. but the chemical response in my brain is the only difference.

Maybe in this way I can tenuously link my spoon preference to my innate drive to reproduce. If we accept this as a possibility then it is also possible our appreciation for art is also rooted in this evolutionary programming, and our art and appreciation of it simply becomes more sophisticated as we do as a species.

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Re: Spoon sex?

Post by Obvious Leo » October 31st, 2014, 7:47 pm

PaulNZ wrote:Maybe in this way I can tenuously link my spoon preference to my innate drive to reproduce
It's never wise to rush these things, mate. First take your spoon out on a few dates. Maybe a movie or a drive in the countryside. Perhaps even a Billy Joel concert to see if that gets the hormones surging. Sexual relationships with cutlery are potentially life-threatening so you should be very cautious before you take your infatuation to the next level. It goes without saying that taking your spoon by force would be ungentlemanly.

Regards Leo

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Re: Spoon sex?

Post by PaulNZ » October 31st, 2014, 8:50 pm

Obvious Leo wrote:
PaulNZ wrote:Maybe in this way I can tenuously link my spoon preference to my innate drive to reproduce
It's never wise to rush these things, mate. First take your spoon out on a few dates. Maybe a movie or a drive in the countryside. Perhaps even a Billy Joel concert to see if that gets the hormones surging. Sexual relationships with cutlery are potentially life-threatening so you should be very cautious before you take your infatuation to the next level. It goes without saying that taking your spoon by force would be ungentlemanly.

Regards Leo
I am picking up a subliminal vibe that you guys aren't taking me seriously. Luckily I don't take myself seriously either and can heartily agree with that approach as a starting point. I'm not sure issues of consent can be transposed to spoons or cutlry more generally. I think I could be confused over my sexuality and maybe the spoon thing is something that has always been there, just not consciously acknowledged until now.

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Re: Spoon sex?

Post by DoctorEuthanasia » November 2nd, 2014, 11:06 am

Fork Sex: Something I would not have survived long without in my profession!

Spoon sex is another story, however.

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