The Art of Boxing and the Fight of the Century
- UniversalAlien
- Posts: 1596
- Joined: March 20th, 2012, 9:37 pm
- Contact:
The Art of Boxing and the Fight of the Century
-
- Posts: 220
- Joined: September 6th, 2014, 4:33 pm
Re: The Art of Boxing and the Fight of the Century
But the way Mayweather does it is not a very popular art. Most people just watch because they hope the other guy will break his face for being such a boring boxer.
Makes one wonder why they don't watch Golovkin instead. then they could actually cheer for the winner for once.
- LuckyR
- Moderator
- Posts: 7996
- Joined: January 18th, 2015, 1:16 am
Re: The Art of Boxing and the Fight of the Century
Similarly, to a serious student of boxing, there can be poetry in the fight, while the unknowing just see two muscled out guys hitting each other.
- Sy Borg
- Site Admin
- Posts: 15155
- Joined: December 16th, 2013, 9:05 pm
Re: The Art of Boxing and the Fight of the Century
I wandered over to visit my nephew next door and he had an entire tribe of young blokes there watching that fight at his place. As with any sport, you cannot gain an appreciation for the forces involved on TV. I learned that when I asked a championship standard tennis player I knew to give me a "proper" serve. I was standing metres behind the baseline and I suddenly felt the ball hurtle past my head.UniversalAlien wrote:Now the philosophical question is why are we interested in boxing - a primitive sport that evolves from man's primal nature? And can you call boxing an art? Is fighting an art? There is a classic book called 'The Art of War". They sometimes call medicine, which is basically a science, an art. Can we call boxing, and other fighting sports, arts? Is there an aesthetic ideal that we can see in the fighting arts
It takes aptitude and skill to generate the kinds of forces used by professional athletes. In boxing it does make you wonder what's happening to their brains, as per Muhammad Ali but it's no my concern if not too much taxpayer money is going into it.
Generally I define art as that which is intended to be art. So I wouldn't say that boxing is an art, no more than tennis or any other sport. However, sports can be appreciated like art by some observers who are able to understand the "artistic aspects" and appreciate the creative processes involved when contestants mix their training with improvisational adaptations in the heat of the moment.
- Lucylu
- Posts: 676
- Joined: October 1st, 2013, 2:32 pm
Re: The Art of Boxing and the Fight of the Century
Ironically boxing was actually much safer before they brought in the use of gloves. Before then people would naturally punch the body and the softer areas to prevent breaking their hands, but since the padded gloves were introduced, they punch each other in the head with abandon! Personally, I cant watch.Greta wrote:In boxing it does make you wonder what's happening to their brains
-
- Posts: 1532
- Joined: May 6th, 2013, 4:03 pm
- Location: Yorkshire
Re: The Art of Boxing and the Fight of the Century
- Henry Case
- Posts: 76
- Joined: May 15th, 2015, 1:04 am
- Favorite Philosopher: Jacques Derrida
Re: The Art of Boxing and the Fight of the Century
I agree with this. If physical excellence at any enterprise producing possible beauty-- like a beautiful golf swing--is art, then any sport could be an art. Golf and curling are not art. Also, can something still be art if it actively leads to the degradation and destruction of its participants? Obviously boxing is not quite snuff films, but it's observers know full well it damages the bodies and brains of, and sometimes immediately kills, its participants. Real art shouldn't and doesn't do that.Harbal wrote:If boxing is art then any skill is art which I don't think is the case. That is what I have decided.
- LuckyR
- Moderator
- Posts: 7996
- Joined: January 18th, 2015, 1:16 am
Re: The Art of Boxing and the Fight of the Century
Is yoga closer to a sport or an art form? How about tai chi? It must be an art since it surely is not a sport. Well if tai chi is art, then karate is pretty close to that and boxing is pretty close to karate. Thus boxing could be considered a legit art form, though obviously also a sport.
- Henry Case
- Posts: 76
- Joined: May 15th, 2015, 1:04 am
- Favorite Philosopher: Jacques Derrida
Re: The Art of Boxing and the Fight of the Century
You completely neglected my arguments from my last post, Lucky. I said:LuckyR wrote:Well, we are all in agreement that dancing is art, no? Then ice dancing must be art too, right? True it's an Olymic medal sport as well. So we have established that a sport can be an art.
Is yoga closer to a sport or an art form? How about tai chi? It must be an art since it surely is not a sport. Well if tai chi is art, then karate is pretty close to that and boxing is pretty close to karate. Thus boxing could be considered a legit art form, though obviously also a sport.
So, I pose that question to you: can something still be art if it actively leads to the degradation and destruction of its participants? If so, that could open the door for artistic snuff films or artistic hardcore pornography hurting its participants being art as well.Also, can something still be art if it actively leads to the degradation and destruction of its participants? Obviously boxing is not quite snuff films, but it's observers know full well it damages the bodies and brains of, and sometimes immediately kills, its participants. Real art shouldn't and doesn't do that.
- LuckyR
- Moderator
- Posts: 7996
- Joined: January 18th, 2015, 1:16 am
Re: The Art of Boxing and the Fight of the Century
Henry Case wrote:You completely neglected my arguments from my last post, Lucky. I said:LuckyR wrote:Well, we are all in agreement that dancing is art, no? Then ice dancing must be art too, right? True it's an Olymic medal sport as well. So we have established that a sport can be an art.
Is yoga closer to a sport or an art form? How about tai chi? It must be an art since it surely is not a sport. Well if tai chi is art, then karate is pretty close to that and boxing is pretty close to karate. Thus boxing could be considered a legit art form, though obviously also a sport.So, I pose that question to you: can something still be art if it actively leads to the degradation and destruction of its participants? If so, that could open the door for artistic snuff films or artistic hardcore pornography hurting its participants being art as well.Also, can something still be art if it actively leads to the degradation and destruction of its participants? Obviously boxing is not quite snuff films, but it's observers know full well it damages the bodies and brains of, and sometimes immediately kills, its participants. Real art shouldn't and doesn't do that.
Uummm... I was addressing Harbal, if you must, but I'll take your comments on as well: Well, we are in agreement that dancing is art, right? You certainly must be aware that ballet can lead to debilitating injuries and overuse damage to dancer's feet, are you not? If not, luckily this has been extensively studied:
http://www.washington.edu/news/2000/10/ ... -injuries/
"No, no" I hear you protest, ballet is different, injuries are accidents of dance not the intent of the dance, whereas injuries are the intent of boxing. OK, but now you're changing your argument when faced with evidence of it's weakness. Thanks for the acknowledgement.
To use your analogies, we are all in agreement that film is art, right? Is everything that is physically on film, "art"? Most would probably argue "no". Thus it is perfectly legitimate to argue that pornography or the mythical "snuff" film genre is not art, though this can be accomplished without invoking harm to the participants as the reasoning for doing so.
If harm to the participants is a large determining factor in whether an activity is art or not, what is your opinion on fencing? Very safe, essentially no true harm, is fencing art?
- Henry Case
- Posts: 76
- Joined: May 15th, 2015, 1:04 am
- Favorite Philosopher: Jacques Derrida
Re: The Art of Boxing and the Fight of the Century
Henry Case wrote:So, I pose that question to you: can something still be art if it actively leads to the degradation and destruction of its participants? If so, that could open the door for artistic snuff films or artistic hardcore pornography hurting its participants being art as well.
That was an intriguing irrelevant replication of your previous post, a complete evasion of my post and arguments, and a complete misrepresentation of my "analogies." You are aware that philosophical discussion actually depends on addressing what your interlocutor stated and not misrepresenting it, right?Uummm... I was addressing Harbal, if you must, but I'll take your comments on as well: Well, we are in agreement that dancing is art, right? You certainly must be aware that ballet can lead to debilitating injuries and overuse damage to dancer's feet, are you not? If not, luckily this has been extensively studied:
http://www.washington.edu/news/2000/10/ ... -injuries/
"No, no" I hear you protest, ballet is different, injuries are accidents of dance not the intent of the dance, whereas injuries are the intent of boxing. OK, but now you're changing your argument when faced with evidence of it's weakness. Thanks for the acknowledgement.
To use your analogies, we are all in agreement that film is art, right? Is everything that is physically on film, "art"? Most would probably argue "no". Thus it is perfectly legitimate to argue that pornography or the mythical "snuff" film genre is not art, though this can be accomplished without invoking harm to the participants as the reasoning for doing so.
If harm to the participants is a large determining factor in whether an activity is art or not, what is your opinion on fencing? Very safe, essentially no true harm, is fencing art?
So, I will re-post my boxing question you failed to address in any way:
"Also, can something still be art if it actively leads to the degradation and destruction of its participants? Obviously boxing is not quite snuff films, but it's observers know full well it damages the bodies and brains of, and sometimes immediately kills, its participants. Real art shouldn't and doesn't do that."
Maybe you can actually address it in your next post. Your irrelevant snuff film anecdote not only misrepresented my analogies, it was irrelevant to the argument. You just simply claim snuff films might not be art because film might not be art: a loathsome minimilization of the issues. I had claimed that calling boxing--which degrades and destroys its participants--"art" would open the door for other activities destroying and degrading their participants, like snuff films, to be art as well. Again, your post above completely failed to address that issue...try to do so in your next post.
- UniversalAlien
- Posts: 1596
- Joined: March 20th, 2012, 9:37 pm
- Contact:
Re: The Art of Boxing and the Fight of the Century
- LuckyR
- Moderator
- Posts: 7996
- Joined: January 18th, 2015, 1:16 am
Re: The Art of Boxing and the Fight of the Century
Well, we all get a chance in a Forum format to ask our questions and seek answers. I will take your insistance on sole focus being applied to your questions as a lack of something (interest, ability, whathaveyou) required to broaden the discussion beyond your own posted ideas until I hear differently.Henry Case wrote:"Also, can something still be art if it actively leads to the degradation and destruction of its participants? Obviously boxing is not quite snuff films, but it's observers know full well it damages the bodies and brains of, and sometimes immediately kills, its participants. Real art shouldn't and doesn't do that."
Sentence 1: Yes, since degradation and destruction is not part of the formal, nor common defintion of "art"
Sentence 2: Agreed on both counts
Sentence 3: Essentially opinion. A fine one, but ultimately just opinion.
2024 Philosophy Books of the Month
2023 Philosophy Books of the Month
Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul
by Mitzi Perdue
February 2023
Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness
by Chet Shupe
March 2023