Why do we respect a sportsperson?

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Curiousboy
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Why do we respect a sportsperson?

Post by Curiousboy » August 29th, 2016, 2:29 pm

Let's consider Vishwanathan Anand, former World Chess Champion. One perspective is that what he has done for others to get that respect - he likes chess so he played it.

What I think is that he teaches others to be consistent and disciplined in the hardest of his time (matches). He teaches them to keep exploring new possibilities even in the dark. He can be a strong inspiration for some woman who is being dominated by the society - never give up.

No doubt chess (or any sport for that matter) helps in developing intellect in all the areas of work; and it's like upliftment of the whole society. But I still need clarification on this.

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Re: Why do we respect a sportsperson?

Post by Mark1955 » December 31st, 2016, 3:22 pm

In my book Chess isn't a sport but that's really not the point. I'd suggest that anyone who is very successful, regardless of what they are successful at, will have developed traits that may well be transferable to other fields, it's worth studying them to see if this is the case. From a less logical more animal psychological perspective we revere winners because they are better than us, recognising this helps us avoid fights with them which we would lose.
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Re: Why do we respect a sportsperson?

Post by Uhanu_p » January 1st, 2017, 5:21 pm

What I think is that he teaches others to be consistent and disciplined in the hardest of his time (matches).
I also think that's the main reason we respect or even admire sportspeople. They choose a sport and then spend years and years of their lives practicing, competing, trying to improve as much as they possibly can. This constant striving for excellence despite everything - tiredness, traumas, heavy losses, etc. is just inspiring to watch.

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Re: Why do we respect a sportsperson?

Post by Renee » January 3rd, 2017, 4:05 am

Thanks for asking the question and for digging it out of the archives.

I think successful sportspersons (athletes) are successful at sports that everyone aspires to be good at. We regard them as teachers, as leaders, and as very attractive sperm-donors.

It goes a bit beyond that... they link hand-in-hand with musicians in their aspects of being heroes. Sports men and -women are heroes and heroins, they are legends; they strengthen the unifying spirit in the tribe. They are examples of strong support and they are examples of hope for the tribe.

The entire sports culture seems to be turning around tribal roots: it's your team against the others', it's your school's runners a paddlers against others's', it's your nation's Olympic envoys against other nations'.

Sports, because of this aspect, is a strong cultural institution.

-- Updated January 3rd, 2017, 4:11 am to add the following --
Mark1955 wrote:From a less logical more animal psychological perspective we revere winners because they are better than us, recognising this helps us avoid fights with them which we would lose.
This is more logical, to me, what you said in the second part. It's practical. Also, it ties in with our obsession of watching violence: it teaches us tricks to use when we are forced into a fight. That's the biggest attractant in watching a fight, of any kind. To increase our chance of survival.

By watching great skiers, golfers, chess players, curlers, and sailors or tennis players, we learn tricks that we can us in our own game. As well as, like you said, making mental notes whom not to challenge.
Ignorance is power.

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Re: Why do we respect a sportsperson?

Post by WorldThief » January 3rd, 2017, 3:56 pm

I read that previously in the Olympics, art and music competitions were held. I wonder what happened to them? Why is it now only a worship of athletic skill?

Adoration of the physical form is timeless, and I suspect that worship of sports stars is an extension of this. It is easy to judge the outward appearance of somebody and a show of physical skill as it relates to scoring points in a game. It is far more difficult to judge their interior life and how they engage in more abstract activities such as art or music which cannot be quantified.

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Re: Why do we respect a sportsperson?

Post by TSBU » January 3rd, 2017, 7:43 pm

I don't respect them just because of that. There are many sportpeople who are crap like human beings (including in chess).

It's a combination of many things, but above all I'd say competition.

We want the best, and we usually try to show that we are the best, and an heuristic make people see the competition trying to learn and know their "enemy". But many people think in "team" terms: "If you can't beat him, unite". Look at people seeeing any match, if their team wins, they say "we won" if their team lose, they say "They lost". Somehow they seem to think that they "are" the sportperson when they see sport, or they feel that they share something. Also, male categories are by far more seen than women categories, and there are sports that tend to be just for men or just for women (like syncronized... I don't know how to say it, swiming?) or boxing for men.. That's clearly realated with sexual behaviour, they show what the oposite sex in generale find attractive. That's also proved by the separation between categories "always": Any common male would lose against any good sportwoman in any sport, women can't be the best in many sports because their body limitations, but they can be better tha many males. There are some separations without sense though. For example, chess (probably, uf, people get mad at that argument), or golf. Somehow, many people don't like to compite with the other sex.

What more... there can be the "violence taste", specially for men. We see violence in movies, sports are more real, and lot of them cause harm to bodies and have their risks.

In the end, you can't enter in other peoples head, and you can't find a reason for every "why". Why do I usually prefer piano to guitar? Who cares but me? And for me, I have better things to think XD.

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Re: Why do we respect a sportsperson?

Post by LuckyR » January 4th, 2017, 8:48 pm

Sports are civilized warfare. Fights to the death don't go with civilized society so sports take their place. Music and the arts express a different sentiment. Thus why it is easy to figure out who the winner is in a sports competition but is quite murky in an arts competition.

The fanatical worshiping of sportspeople is a product of mass media and advertising, it is not inherent to sports.
"As usual... it depends."

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Re: Why do we respect a sportsperson?

Post by TSBU » January 5th, 2017, 9:10 am

LuckyR wrote:Sports are civilized warfare. Fights to the death don't go with civilized society so sports take their place. Music and the arts express a different sentiment. Thus why it is easy to figure out who the winner is in a sports competition but is quite murky in an arts competition.

The fanatical worshiping of sportspeople is a product of mass media and advertising, it is not inherent to sports.
If you see a warfare in a glof match... I see it in the armys. Civilized society is a lie. Music can express rage better than any sports, at least for me, I can feel more rage listening to "megadeth" than seeing boxing. It's not easy knowing who is going to be the winner in sports, otherwise it would be very boring to see it for everybody, and I wouldn't say that arts are competition. There was "mass-media" with the greeks and their olymipcs with naked bodies and names that came to our days?

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Re: Why do we respect a sportsperson?

Post by LuckyR » January 5th, 2017, 12:17 pm

TSBU wrote:
LuckyR wrote:Sports are civilized warfare. Fights to the death don't go with civilized society so sports take their place. Music and the arts express a different sentiment. Thus why it is easy to figure out who the winner is in a sports competition but is quite murky in an arts competition.

The fanatical worshiping of sportspeople is a product of mass media and advertising, it is not inherent to sports.
If you see a warfare in a glof match... I see it in the armys. Civilized society is a lie. Music can express rage better than any sports, at least for me, I can feel more rage listening to "megadeth" than seeing boxing. It's not easy knowing who is going to be the winner in sports, otherwise it would be very boring to see it for everybody, and I wouldn't say that arts are competition. There was "mass-media" with the greeks and their olymipcs with naked bodies and names that came to our days?
A couple of things:

Golf is a game not a sport. But even a game is competitive (in the case of golf it is against yourself). If you don't appreciate the competitive nature of golf you are so out of touch with the subject matter that you are best served by using a different example to make your points as your current one doesn't imply what you think it does.

You are correct that music CAN express rage more powerfully than a sport can, though it is an error to equate rage with warfare.

You are also correct that BEFORE a sports match the winner is unpredictable (though no one implied that idea). However AFTER a sports match (what I was addressing), it is obvious who the victor is, while in the arts victory is essentially a popularity contest, very unsatisfying and irreproducible.

There was a relative mass media in all eras, though the current fanatical sportsperson worship, which is orders of magnitude larger than in previous eras and thus the topic of this thread, is a different beast than that experienced by previous sports heroes.
"As usual... it depends."

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Re: Why do we respect a sportsperson?

Post by TSBU » January 5th, 2017, 5:50 pm

LuckyR wrote:
A couple of things:

Golf is a game not a sport. But even a game is competitive (in the case of golf it is against yourself). If you don't appreciate the competitive nature of golf you are so out of touch with the subject matter that you are best served by using a different example to make your points as your current one doesn't imply what you think it does.

You are correct that music CAN express rage more powerfully than a sport can, though it is an error to equate rage with warfare.

You are also correct that BEFORE a sports match the winner is unpredictable (though no one implied that idea). However AFTER a sports match (what I was addressing), it is obvious who the victor is, while in the arts victory is essentially a popularity contest, very unsatisfying and irreproducible.

There was a relative mass media in all eras, though the current fanatical sportsperson worship, which is orders of magnitude larger than in previous eras and thus the topic of this thread, is a different beast than that experienced by previous sports heroes.
What's the difference between a game and a sport? But another example, if you see warfare in a dance in the ice (wich is olympic) or jumping to a swiming pool...
Golf is not against yourself.
I see the compettition in golf, what I don't see is warfare. Maybe my English is wrong here? I think it's a big word to a dance XD. I guess your feelings are more epic than mines.

Have you ever seen any soccer match? go telling the losing team that the punctuation is objective and you'll see what I understand by warfare. I agree, it seems more easier to punctutate things like how many times has the ball passed through a nest, but that's not so easy in other sports, like the called martial arts (judo etc) (where they can't touch or make many moves in the fight), or simple boxing: If there isn't a KO, the judges look at thngs like who is going forward and who is going back, etc. Also, dance is art, and it's a sport too (I'm not the one saying it), and they get punctuation.

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Re: Why do we respect a sportsperson?

Post by WorldThief » January 5th, 2017, 6:59 pm

Sports as "civilized" warfare is probably accurate, or simulated warfare. Much like the antlers on a male moose or deer, which are used for ritualized battle against rival deer in order to establish hierarchy so that real violence need not be committed, we have the Olympics.

Then again, board games like chess and goe more closely resemble warfare than many "sports." And yet as a society we value sports more than board games. Again, I think it is not only the simulated warfare but the worship of physical beauty / supremacy.

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Re: Why do we respect a sportsperson?

Post by LuckyR » January 5th, 2017, 10:14 pm

TSBU wrote:
LuckyR wrote:
A couple of things:

Golf is a game not a sport. But even a game is competitive (in the case of golf it is against yourself). If you don't appreciate the competitive nature of golf you are so out of touch with the subject matter that you are best served by using a different example to make your points as your current one doesn't imply what you think it does.

You are correct that music CAN express rage more powerfully than a sport can, though it is an error to equate rage with warfare.

You are also correct that BEFORE a sports match the winner is unpredictable (though no one implied that idea). However AFTER a sports match (what I was addressing), it is obvious who the victor is, while in the arts victory is essentially a popularity contest, very unsatisfying and irreproducible.

There was a relative mass media in all eras, though the current fanatical sportsperson worship, which is orders of magnitude larger than in previous eras and thus the topic of this thread, is a different beast than that experienced by previous sports heroes.
What's the difference between a game and a sport? But another example, if you see warfare in a dance in the ice (wich is olympic) or jumping to a swiming pool...
Golf is not against yourself.
I see the compettition in golf, what I don't see is warfare. Maybe my English is wrong here? I think it's a big word to a dance XD. I guess your feelings are more epic than mines.

Have you ever seen any soccer match? go telling the losing team that the punctuation is objective and you'll see what I understand by warfare. I agree, it seems more easier to punctutate things like how many times has the ball passed through a nest, but that's not so easy in other sports, like the called martial arts (judo etc) (where they can't touch or make many moves in the fight), or simple boxing: If there isn't a KO, the judges look at thngs like who is going forward and who is going back, etc. Also, dance is art, and it's a sport too (I'm not the one saying it), and they get punctuation.

I didn't want to get into a game of semantics, but you requested it. Lazy commentators can call anything by any ol' label. Thus why games like poker can be called sports, heck the World Series of Poker is on ESPN. No serious person would call poker a sport. The nature of a sport to my mind involves a number of things: physicality (poker fails this), interaction between competitors (golf fails this as do your examples of ice dancing and diving). Two people doing individual endeavors while a third person observes and declares an arbitrary "winner" is an activity trying to mimic competition where there is no inherent competition between individuals. Thus if I am drilling my tennis serve by hitting a bucket of balls, or rallying with my buddy: that activity has physicality but no competition. Tennis becomes a sport only in matchplay (using the rules and keeping score, declaring a winner and a loser).

The example of boxing, and wrestling are obvious, next things like fencing. Afterwards group activities like football, basketball and individual activities like tennis, squash, racquetball are all substitutes for killing. Golf, darts, shooting, racing don't have direct person to person competition/interaction and are players doing their own thing and comparing their results with someone else doing an individual thing.
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Re: Why do we respect a sportsperson?

Post by Renee » January 6th, 2017, 1:27 am

LuckyR wrote: The fanatical worshiping of sportspeople is a product of mass media and advertising, it is not inherent to sports.
I beg to differ on this. Humans need heroes. Esp. young humans.

I give you so much as to admit that it may be so that the media chose athletes to be heroes. But the hero worship is inherent -- there has to be a "king" and the media's role may be simply to crown one, not to create the concept or position.

For instance, a hundred and fifty years ago athletes were restricted to circus shows. In those days in America (early to middle part of the eighteen hundreds) circus people were poor, unappreciated, and treated at best as "curious". Then, being a politician or a general or other army thing was the thing to become a hero.

Today? Are soldiers heroes? I hardly think so. They do a job, and they can die a martyr's death, but they earn the "hero" title by historic tradition, not by societal worship.

-- Updated January 6th, 2017, 1:30 am to add the following --

I should have added:

"I... I could be king.
You... you could be queen.
For nothing... could keep us away.
We could be heroes... for ever and ever,
We could be heroes... just for one day." -- David Bowie
Ignorance is power.

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Re: Why do we respect a sportsperson?

Post by LuckyR » January 6th, 2017, 1:13 pm

Renee wrote:
LuckyR wrote: The fanatical worshiping of sportspeople is a product of mass media and advertising, it is not inherent to sports.
I beg to differ on this. Humans need heroes. Esp. young humans.

I give you so much as to admit that it may be so that the media chose athletes to be heroes. But the hero worship is inherent -- there has to be a "king" and the media's role may be simply to crown one, not to create the concept or position.

For instance, a hundred and fifty years ago athletes were restricted to circus shows. In those days in America (early to middle part of the eighteen hundreds) circus people were poor, unappreciated, and treated at best as "curious". Then, being a politician or a general or other army thing was the thing to become a hero.

Today? Are soldiers heroes? I hardly think so. They do a job, and they can die a martyr's death, but they earn the "hero" title by historic tradition, not by societal worship.

-- Updated January 6th, 2017, 1:30 am to add the following --

I should have added:

"I... I could be king.
You... you could be queen.
For nothing... could keep us away.
We could be heroes... for ever and ever,
We could be heroes... just for one day." -- David Bowie
I don't disagree with your points as stated. Though I was emphasizing the word fanatical originally. If you take a historical perspective just a little bit less far, back to the infancy of pro sports (so we can compare apples to apples, as opposed to your soldier:athlete comparo attempt), stars like Ty Cobb were in the public eye, they were elevated, their compensation was high. Yet their status was a small fraction of that of present day sports heroes specifically due to mass media. If a New York baseball player signs on with a local east coast baker to endorse cookies in the early 20th century, the overall profits of the product aren't that high and the number of customers who see the ads is relatively low (regional market with few outlets for the ads to run. Newspapers? Pathetic numbers), Nowadays a retired has-been sports star can endorse a weight loss product, the ads run continuously on numerous media platforms nationally. It is the rare adult american who is not fully aware that Dan Marino sponsors Nutrisystem and has not literally seen a hundred ads he has been in over the years.
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