Greeks' Techne and our sense of Technology

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Greeks' Techne and our sense of Technology

Post Number:#1  Postby Mesbah » June 4th, 2017, 4:20 am

Hi
For a specific research, I've been tracking the concept of Techne in Ancient Greek. There are already two good books on this topic, by Angier and Roochnik; (these works concentrate mainly on the virtue-techne question)

However what I'm looking for is how Greek techne is related to our sense of technology in its modern sense? What are the similarities and differences?

There must be different interpretations, for example, Heidegger says a major difference between Greek techne with our technology is that Greek techne would help physis (nature, or even cosmos, universe at large) to reveal itself to human, while modern technology conceals the universe away from human. You might disagree, as I do, It's just an example, there are other ways to see this relation.

Anyone's creative ideas or related sources are much appreciated.
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Re: Greeks' Techne and our sense of Technology

Post Number:#2  Postby Fooloso4 » June 4th, 2017, 8:34 pm

An interesting topic. I hope you will have more to say as your work progresses. I cannot be of much help. You have already referenced David Roochnik and I assume he has referenced his teacher Stanley Rosen and Rosen’s teacher Leo Strauss, so you are in good hands with regard to the ancients. If you have not read it Rosen’s “Techne and the Origins of Modernity” in the anthology Technology in the Western Political Tradition might be of interest, as might other papers in the anthology (although I have not read any of them).
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Re: Greeks' Techne and our sense of Technology

Post Number:#3  Postby Mesbah » June 8th, 2017, 8:36 am

Fooloso4 wrote:An interesting topic. I hope you will have more to say as your work progresses. I cannot be of much help. You have already referenced David Roochnik and I assume he has referenced his teacher Stanley Rosen and Rosen’s teacher Leo Strauss, so you are in good hands with regard to the ancients. If you have not read it Rosen’s “Techne and the Origins of Modernity” in the anthology Technology in the Western Political Tradition might be of interest, as might other papers in the anthology (although I have not read any of them).



Tanks for your reply and suggested sources, I didn't know the teachers' line of Roochnik, That's interesting.
I also saw your PM to me, I tried so hard to reply it there, but I couldn't find how!
anyway, this started from a personal interest, then I decided to place it within a larger project that I have for my Ph.D thesis. That is a comparative study between Greek Techne and Islamic Sina'a (craftsmanship). That project is more of a comparison between the same concept in two worlds and ideologies until a fixed historical point (before modern time) than a then-and-now comparison.
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Re: Greeks' Techne and our sense of Technology

Post Number:#4  Postby Fooloso4 » June 8th, 2017, 4:13 pm

I also saw your PM to me, I tried so hard to reply it there, but I couldn't find how!


Sorry, my fault. I forgot the trial members cannot send PMs.

Islamic Sina'a (craftsmanship).


I am aware of the influence of Plato and Aristotle on Islamic and Persian thinkers and vaguely remember reading about how Plato was generally ignored in medieval Western thought to be recovered through an interest in Arabic mathematics.

Is it craftsmanship (productive arts) or more more broadly things like medicine, politics, mathematics, writing, and dialectic that you are looking at?
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Re: Greeks' Techne and our sense of Technology

Post Number:#5  Postby Mesbah » June 11th, 2017, 3:59 am

It's craftsmanship in its broadest sense, including philosophy itself, Muslim thinkers refer to their discussions as a kind of Sina'a (craft).
One question might be why this concept, techne, became so broad, even in ancient Greek, it wasn't as broad when first made its way to the literature.
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Re: Greeks' Techne and our sense of Technology

Post Number:#6  Postby Fooloso4 » June 11th, 2017, 11:56 am

One thing that just occurred to me is how techne relates to poiesis, that is, the making of images. Is poiesis a techne?
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Re: Greeks' Techne and our sense of Technology

Post Number:#7  Postby -1- » June 18th, 2017, 11:55 am

I just happened to leaf through some papers in my by now defunct grandfather's private office, and found that motosysos is a techne that employs kissing a tree bark in the Othnacean culture when the three-day long festival of the rite of deflowering a young apple-tree is underway. The festival itself is called Ptomploeamykretia. This fiesta is well known to have a ban on going to the washroom for the entire duration of the festivities.

Is kissing inhuman objects a part of the Techne you are studying o Opening Poster?
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Re: Greeks' Techne and our sense of Technology

Post Number:#8  Postby Mesbah » July 23rd, 2017, 10:00 am

Fooloso4 wrote:One thing that just occurred to me is how techne relates to poiesis, that is, the making of images. Is poiesis a techne?


Yes they are related, but the extent of this relation remains unclear. Although both have to do with "production" they differ in some aspects like:
1- Poiesis is general production, all sorts of production, including poetry and literature, but techne is a production in which the agent is capable of giving a rational account of the process (poetry is an irrational practice in ancient Greece, it's the inspiration of Muses, not based on reason.)
2-Poiesis has its end in itself while techne always or almost always aims at something out of itself.
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Re: Greeks' Techne and our sense of Technology

Post Number:#9  Postby Mesbah » July 23rd, 2017, 10:06 am

-1- wrote:I just happened to leaf through some papers in my by now defunct grandfather's private office, and found that motosysos is a techne that employs kissing a tree bark in the Othnacean culture when the three-day long festival of the rite of deflowering a young apple-tree is underway. The festival itself is called Ptomploeamykretia. This fiesta is well known to have a ban on going to the washroom for the entire duration of the festivities.

Is kissing inhuman objects a part of the Techne you are studying o Opening Poster?


Ummm, it's weird. Not the story and festival you reported (since there are more weird festivals and rituals out there) , but how this story can be related to the ancient Greek understanding of techne, so far I haven't come up with anything similar to that.
I think it's just a use of the word "techne" in the meaning "art" or "skill" in that piece of writhing, nothing more; I'm not sure.
Tnx for contribution anyway.
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Re: Greeks' Techne and our sense of Technology

Post Number:#10  Postby Fooloso4 » July 23rd, 2017, 5:49 pm

Mesbah:

Poiesis is general production, all sorts of production, including poetry and literature, but techne is a production in which the agent is capable of giving a rational account of the process (poetry is an irrational practice in ancient Greece, it's the inspiration of Muses, not based on reason.)


Good point. This is of course Plato’s criticism of the poets but as with all things in Plato I don’t think that can be taken at face value alone. As with the distinction between the philosopher and the sophist and the philosopher and the statesman a careful reading of the dialogues shows those distinctions are not so clear cut. The poets exhibit a great deal of technical skill and their insights into men and human life are not unreasonable. I do not know if Roochnik gets into it but Rosen, Benardete, and others make a strong case for Plato’s own philosophical poetry in the Republic, Symposium, and elsewhere. Benardete gives what is described as a philosophic reading of the poets and a poetic reading of the philosophers.

If all this is a distraction from your focus feel free to ignore it.
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