How is Love related Beauty ?

Use this forum to have philosophical discussions about aesthetics and art. What is art? What is beauty? What makes art good? You can also use this forum to discuss philosophy in the arts, namely to discuss the philosophical points in any particular movie, TV show, book or story.
Dachshund
Posts: 513
Joined: October 11th, 2017, 5:30 pm

How is Love related Beauty ?

Post by Dachshund »

Gabriel Marcel argued that love and beauty were related to each other. He said:

"You know that you have truly loved someone when you have glimpsed in them that which is too beautiful to die".

I think he is right.

Does anyone disagree?

Regards

Dachshund
Dachshund
Posts: 513
Joined: October 11th, 2017, 5:30 pm

Re: How is Love related Beauty ?

Post by Dachshund »

Oops the title of the OP should read: "How is Love related TO Beauty"
User avatar
LuckyR
Moderator
Posts: 7914
Joined: January 18th, 2015, 1:16 am

Re: How is Love related Beauty ?

Post by LuckyR »

I don't disagree, though in common usage, various reasonable people would agree or disagree that the "beauty" used in the love context would be identical to other uses of the word "beauty".
"As usual... it depends."
User avatar
Hereandnow
Posts: 2837
Joined: July 11th, 2012, 9:16 pm
Favorite Philosopher: the moon and the stars

Re: How is Love related Beauty ?

Post by Hereandnow »

How is it that when one acknowledges something or someone as beautiful, one can escape one self to do so? It is not that there is no one or nothing there, beyond the self, it's rather that this "Other" is given to you through your self, that is, your faculties of perception, thought, and feeling. Love and beauty? Whence comes love if not from within? And how is it that the beloved can place this there? He, she or it can inspire, one might say, or, to put the matter on more objective footing, catalyze, through some emotional midwifery (think Socratic maieutics such that one cannot teach another what the other does not already know, for elsewise how could the other have the disposition to receive it?) love and aesthetics, but not be these themselves sort of transposing from one to the other. It cannot be made sense of to say that anything "out there" (if Wittgenstein will pardon me for speaking nonsense) can get in here.
User avatar
samseth
New Trial Member
Posts: 1
Joined: April 10th, 2019, 7:17 pm

Re: How is Love related Beauty ?

Post by samseth »

Good day for all,

I agree with the quoted statement given but I also have my point of view on this. As a rational thinker, I also spent some time to think when this topic really 'poked' my mind.

In my way, I also agree that Beauty is indeed related to Love, but the relationship between them needs to be explained or expressed in different and detailed way. This is my way of thinking and I will present it in sequence and in simple ways.
  • 1. By word itself (literal meaning)

    i. Beauty & Love - both are 'literally' nouns and can be expressed
    ii. Love - can also be a verb, but in this case it is a noun with capital 'L'
    iii. Beautiful & Lovely - now they become adjectives
    iv. Beauty (beautiful) - [no matter how I think, I can only tell that the word indicates an element of appearance (adjective) *based on what I know so far*
    v. Love - it is something we can feel (feeling)
    vi. Noun - Beauty = Love
    vii. Adjective - Beauty (beautiful) = Love (lovely)
    viii. Verb - Beauty ≠ Love (love is a verb)
    ix. Feeling/Emotion - Beauty ≠ Love or Beauty < Love (if any future arguments are included)
    x. Appearance - Beauty (beautiful) > Love (lovely) (if any future arguments are included)
As I see the 'foundation' above, I can confirm that they are related with each other at some points. I will move to the theory behind those words.
  • 2. Theories or Philosophy

    i. Philosophy of Beauty (and explanation)
    In my point of view, after I read some opinions from other professionals, I can see that Beauty is the way particle by particle, cell by cell, and substance by substance which then made a thing (or being) are arranged in a certain way. This makes me think that Beauty is a part of 'perfection' and created by logical processes and does not require an emotion (at first) but a system whether it is naturally formed or created by human action.

    ii. Philosophy of Love (and explanation)
    "Love is an excitement towards something". This sentence means that Love needs a thing to be loved, which that thing must be constructed by systems, and contains Beauty in its way.
    Love and Beauty are also related to power, if this type of philosophy is included in this thread, I will say that now they are having a same type of title and degree. This argument cannot be included based on my opinion since each of them is now a 'mighty title' which cannot be related. Beauty is now having its own 'business' and the same thing happens to Love.
Therefore, after I went through this, I will jump to the aftermath. The final conclusion of my explanation is,
"Beauty is not important for Love, if any, maybe insignificant enough, but a sense of Love can be established from a spark of Beauty."
I am a 21 years old Malaysian named Sam, I am a bachelor student in business major. I am interested in philosophy since I think I need to see the world broader, and develop advanced critical thinking skill. I am not old enough to boast myself on my achievements or anything since I have no experiences as much as what others have. I am humbly being here to learn and share (not teach) my own thoughts too, so for those who read this, please give chances to this wandering young man with benevolence.

I am also a writer and working for my first ever poetry book, which hopefully will finished this year. However, I write poems mainly in my mother tongue, Malay and some of them are in English. If anyone out there is interested to read my artwork, please send me a message so I can share my website link. Thank you.
aveenire
Posts: 32
Joined: March 21st, 2019, 12:48 pm

Re: How is Love related Beauty ?

Post by aveenire »

where is love ? and lust and love are different thing.
User avatar
dawwg
Posts: 74
Joined: July 30th, 2019, 5:33 am

Re: How is Love related Beauty ?

Post by dawwg »

Hereandnow wrote: August 9th, 2018, 10:55 am How is it that when one acknowledges something or someone as beautiful, one can escape one self to do so? It is not that there is no one or nothing there, beyond the self, it's rather that this "Other" is given to you through your self, that is, your faculties of perception, thought, and feeling. Love and beauty? Whence comes love if not from within?
Simply put, love is a subjective value based on habit, repetition and a sparing of the rod
Hereandnow wrote: August 9th, 2018, 10:55 am And how is it that the beloved can place this there? He, she or it can inspire, one might say, or, to put the matter on more objective footing, catalyze, through some emotional midwifery (think Socratic maieutics such that one cannot teach another what the other does not already know, for elsewise how could the other have the disposition to receive it?) love and aesthetics, but not be these themselves sort of transposing from one to the other. It cannot be made sense of to say that anything "out there" (if Wittgenstein will pardon me for speaking nonsense) can get in here.
"Beware of strangers with candy" but not your ugly old grandparents (who may be Nazi sympathizers for all you know) or your ugly old town that stroke your ego's reliance on familiarity.
User avatar
ian37
New Trial Member
Posts: 3
Joined: April 19th, 2020, 7:16 pm

Re: How is Love related Beauty ?

Post by ian37 »

To love someone, I think you have to find him or her beautiful or at least appreciate seeing some sort of beauty within that individual. This could be inner, outer, or both. So it would seem that love cannot exist without some relationship to beauty. Yet, I still strongly feel that you can find beauty outside of love. Therefore, a demon of duality.
User avatar
detail
Posts: 171
Joined: June 1st, 2019, 1:39 pm

Re: How is Love related Beauty ?

Post by detail »

Love can have many aspects not only visual but olfactorial (smells etc.) and a whole cloud or even bunch of other aspect. Some of these bunches don't seem to oblige you but may come from cultural aspect as for example for the gypsi culture or other third world countries even stronger definitions could be found.
User avatar
detail
Posts: 171
Joined: June 1st, 2019, 1:39 pm

Re: How is Love related Beauty ?

Post by detail »

Just think about burt lancaster in from here to eternity , where he wanted to kill himself if the woman of his desire didn't wanted him.
User avatar
Count Lucanor
Posts: 2318
Joined: May 6th, 2017, 5:08 pm
Favorite Philosopher: Umberto Eco
Location: Panama
Contact:

Re: How is Love related Beauty ?

Post by Count Lucanor »

There's a famous meme on internet with a phrase doubtfully attributed to Nietszche:

If you crush a cockroach, you're a hero. If you crush a beautiful butterfly, you're a villain. Morals have aesthetic criteria.

The same aesthetic criteria could be attributed to love.
The wise are instructed by reason, average minds by experience, the stupid by necessity and the brute by instinct.
― Marcus Tullius Cicero
User avatar
Sculptor1
Posts: 7066
Joined: May 16th, 2019, 5:35 am

Re: How is Love related Beauty ?

Post by Sculptor1 »

Dachshund wrote: May 16th, 2018, 10:53 am Gabriel Marcel argued that love and beauty were related to each other. He said:

"You know that you have truly loved someone when you have glimpsed in them that which is too beautiful to die".

I think he is right.

Does anyone disagree?

Regards

Dachshund
Love can make someone beautiful. But to love beauty for the sake of it is false.
User avatar
Angel Trismegistus
Posts: 568
Joined: July 25th, 2020, 1:19 pm
Favorite Philosopher: William James
Location: New York City

Re: How is Love related Beauty ?

Post by Angel Trismegistus »

No one's picked up on the role of death in the Marcel quote. Strange.
User avatar
LuckyR
Moderator
Posts: 7914
Joined: January 18th, 2015, 1:16 am

Re: How is Love related Beauty ?

Post by LuckyR »

Angel Trismegistus wrote: August 1st, 2020, 2:46 am No one's picked up on the role of death in the Marcel quote. Strange.
Though less strange than posting about something you find interesting while withholding your own opinion on it.
"As usual... it depends."
User avatar
Angel Trismegistus
Posts: 568
Joined: July 25th, 2020, 1:19 pm
Favorite Philosopher: William James
Location: New York City

Re: How is Love related Beauty ?

Post by Angel Trismegistus »

LuckyR wrote: August 7th, 2020, 10:51 am
Angel Trismegistus wrote: August 1st, 2020, 2:46 am No one's picked up on the role of death in the Marcel quote. Strange.
Though less strange than posting about something you find interesting while withholding your own opinion on it.
Fair enough. So it seems to me that the Marcel quote resonates upon the theme of liebestod, the romantic idea that associates love and death. The classic expression of this theme, found in opera and literature, portrays love as transcendent -- Elizabeth Barrett Browning's "I shall love thee better after death." But Marcel appears to contradict this theme and to oppose love and death -- the beloved is in some sense "too beautiful to die." In the Marcel quote the association of love and beauty appears to be at odds with the association of love and death. The quote, as it stands, without the benefit of context, seems to deny the transcendence of love.
Image
Post Reply

Return to “Philosophy of the Arts and Philosophy in the Arts”

2023/2024 Philosophy Books of the Month

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise
by John K Danenbarger
January 2023

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul
by Mitzi Perdue
February 2023

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness
by Chet Shupe
March 2023

The Unfakeable Code®

The Unfakeable Code®
by Tony Jeton Selimi
April 2023

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are
by Alan Watts
May 2023

Killing Abel

Killing Abel
by Michael Tieman
June 2023

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead
by E. Alan Fleischauer
July 2023

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough
by Mark Unger
August 2023

Predictably Irrational

Predictably Irrational
by Dan Ariely
September 2023

Artwords

Artwords
by Beatriz M. Robles
November 2023

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope
by Dr. Randy Ross
December 2023

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes
by Ali Master
February 2024

2022 Philosophy Books of the Month

Emotional Intelligence At Work

Emotional Intelligence At Work
by Richard M Contino & Penelope J Holt
January 2022

Free Will, Do You Have It?

Free Will, Do You Have It?
by Albertus Kral
February 2022

My Enemy in Vietnam

My Enemy in Vietnam
by Billy Springer
March 2022

2X2 on the Ark

2X2 on the Ark
by Mary J Giuffra, PhD
April 2022

The Maestro Monologue

The Maestro Monologue
by Rob White
May 2022

What Makes America Great

What Makes America Great
by Bob Dowell
June 2022

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!
by Jerry Durr
July 2022

Living in Color

Living in Color
by Mike Murphy
August 2022 (tentative)

The Not So Great American Novel

The Not So Great American Novel
by James E Doucette
September 2022

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches
by John N. (Jake) Ferris
October 2022

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All
by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
November 2022

The Smartest Person in the Room: The Root Cause and New Solution for Cybersecurity

The Smartest Person in the Room
by Christian Espinosa
December 2022

2021 Philosophy Books of the Month

The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God's Plan

The Biblical Clock
by Daniel Friedmann
March 2021

Wilderness Cry: A Scientific and Philosophical Approach to Understanding God and the Universe

Wilderness Cry
by Dr. Hilary L Hunt M.D.
April 2021

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute: Tools To Spark Your Dream And Ignite Your Follow-Through

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute
by Jeff Meyer
May 2021

Surviving the Business of Healthcare: Knowledge is Power

Surviving the Business of Healthcare
by Barbara Galutia Regis M.S. PA-C
June 2021

Winning the War on Cancer: The Epic Journey Towards a Natural Cure

Winning the War on Cancer
by Sylvie Beljanski
July 2021

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream
by Dr Frank L Douglas
August 2021

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts
by Mark L. Wdowiak
September 2021

The Preppers Medical Handbook

The Preppers Medical Handbook
by Dr. William W Forgey M.D.
October 2021

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress: A Practical Guide

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress
by Dr. Gustavo Kinrys, MD
November 2021

Dream For Peace: An Ambassador Memoir

Dream For Peace
by Dr. Ghoulem Berrah
December 2021