My NonParadoxical Explanation of Time and Space
 DouglasTheAwesome
 New Trial Member
 Posts: 2
 Joined: March 1st, 2017, 7:21 pm
My NonParadoxical Explanation of Time and Space
This is going to be quite a long post, so I may cut it short and come back to expand it later.
One night, when I was in the shower, I was frustrated about how the 4th dimension was so different compared to the first three. Keep in mind the fact that I have Asperger's Syndrome. I suddenly had a moment of inspiration. "What if they aren't so different? What if they follow the same pattern? What if the difference between dimensions two and three are the same as between three and four?" I then started scribbling in a notebook for the next few hours. This is what I got:
The 0th dimension is a dot. No length, no width, no height. Zero dimensions.
The 1st dimension is a line. This single dimension is usually called length.
The 2nd dimension is like a square. They have two dimensions, which are titled two of the three following: length, width, and height.
The 3rd dimension is like a cube. It has three dimensions, being length, width, and height.
It follows the pattern:
The 4th dimension is like a cube, stretched out through a timeline. It has four dimensions, being length, width, height, and time!
The 5th dimension is like a cube, stretched out through multiple timelines. It has five dimensions, being length, width, height, time, and what is probably an unnamed measurement whatchamacallit.
Here is another pattern, that really makes lightbulbs go off in people's heads:
The 0th dimension is a dot.
The 1st dimension is a line. A line is made of an infinite number of dots strung together.
The 2nd dimension is like a square, which is made of an infinite number of lines strung together.
The 3rd dimension is like a cube, which is made of an infinite number of squares strung together.
The 4th dimension is like a cube stretched out through a timeline, which is made of an infinite number of squares strung together.
ETC.
Because of this pattern, there are an infinite number of dimensions. Given the fact that there are infinite dimensions, separations between dimensions are an illusion we created by giving them a name. A dimension is just a way of classifying a part of something that is already there, but everything has infinite dimensions. Paper still has thickness. Paper still moves through time. The paper still exists in alternate timelines. Et cetera.
I've also used these patterns to show how time flows, how time travel would work, etc., but I'm short on time. I'll come back and edit this post within the next few days.
One night, when I was in the shower, I was frustrated about how the 4th dimension was so different compared to the first three. Keep in mind the fact that I have Asperger's Syndrome. I suddenly had a moment of inspiration. "What if they aren't so different? What if they follow the same pattern? What if the difference between dimensions two and three are the same as between three and four?" I then started scribbling in a notebook for the next few hours. This is what I got:
The 0th dimension is a dot. No length, no width, no height. Zero dimensions.
The 1st dimension is a line. This single dimension is usually called length.
The 2nd dimension is like a square. They have two dimensions, which are titled two of the three following: length, width, and height.
The 3rd dimension is like a cube. It has three dimensions, being length, width, and height.
It follows the pattern:
The 4th dimension is like a cube, stretched out through a timeline. It has four dimensions, being length, width, height, and time!
The 5th dimension is like a cube, stretched out through multiple timelines. It has five dimensions, being length, width, height, time, and what is probably an unnamed measurement whatchamacallit.
Here is another pattern, that really makes lightbulbs go off in people's heads:
The 0th dimension is a dot.
The 1st dimension is a line. A line is made of an infinite number of dots strung together.
The 2nd dimension is like a square, which is made of an infinite number of lines strung together.
The 3rd dimension is like a cube, which is made of an infinite number of squares strung together.
The 4th dimension is like a cube stretched out through a timeline, which is made of an infinite number of squares strung together.
ETC.
Because of this pattern, there are an infinite number of dimensions. Given the fact that there are infinite dimensions, separations between dimensions are an illusion we created by giving them a name. A dimension is just a way of classifying a part of something that is already there, but everything has infinite dimensions. Paper still has thickness. Paper still moves through time. The paper still exists in alternate timelines. Et cetera.
I've also used these patterns to show how time flows, how time travel would work, etc., but I'm short on time. I'll come back and edit this post within the next few days.
 Greta
 Site Admin
 Posts: 6025
 Joined: December 16th, 2013, 9:05 pm
Re: My NonParadoxical Explanation of Time and Space
Hi Douglas. It may also be that there are natural limits to the numbers of dimensions, all yet to be known. Imagine that you pan out dimensionally from this universe, then to all possible permutations of this universe, then to multiple universes, then to all possible multiverses ... where to from there? Multiverses themselves are still in the realms of speculation for us, let alone extrapolations from the concept.
I find some of Rob Bryanton's videos helpful in understanding dimensions but my brain malfunctions with these ideas after a while: https://www.youtube.com/user/10thdim
I find some of Rob Bryanton's videos helpful in understanding dimensions but my brain malfunctions with these ideas after a while: https://www.youtube.com/user/10thdim

 Posts: 4543
 Joined: June 15th, 2011, 5:53 pm
 Favorite Philosopher: Eratosthenes
 Location: UK
Re: My NonParadoxical Explanation of Time and Space
DouglasTheAwesome:
One thing to bear in mind: the concept of dimensions is a mathematical construct. For sure, it is useful for modelling the observed world that we call reality, but you can go wrong if you start to confuse the map with the territory  to think that those dimensions are reality. You're quite right in observing that it is perfectly mathematically consistent to just keep adding more dimensions, obeying the rule that each new dimension is simultaneously perpendicular to all of the previous ones. But that doesn't necessarily mean you've made any empirical discovery about the observable world. It means you've used some deductive mathematical reasoning to make a discovery about mathematics.
The mathematical concept of an ndimensional space is useful for modelling and visualising various different aspects of the physical world. Not just the thing that we normally refer to as space and think of as having 3 dimensions (or spacetime that we think of as having 4 dimensions). That's just the most well known one.
Another well known use of this mathematical model called dimensionality is the concept of "phase space". As an example of this, think of all the numbers required to entirely define the state, at a given instant, of a point particle at a location in physical space. It is 6. You need 3 for its position and 3 for its velocity. Now imagine a system of n particles (where n is any whole number) like, for example, an ideal gas. The number of numbers required to define the state of that gas is 6n. Now you can imagine a "space" with 6n dimensions. In that multidimensional space a single point represents the entire state of that gas  the state of all its contituent particles. A line in that space could represent the evolution of that gas over time.
These are the ways in which the concepts of dimensionality and space can be used to manage the complexity of modelling complex systems.
One thing to bear in mind: the concept of dimensions is a mathematical construct. For sure, it is useful for modelling the observed world that we call reality, but you can go wrong if you start to confuse the map with the territory  to think that those dimensions are reality. You're quite right in observing that it is perfectly mathematically consistent to just keep adding more dimensions, obeying the rule that each new dimension is simultaneously perpendicular to all of the previous ones. But that doesn't necessarily mean you've made any empirical discovery about the observable world. It means you've used some deductive mathematical reasoning to make a discovery about mathematics.
The mathematical concept of an ndimensional space is useful for modelling and visualising various different aspects of the physical world. Not just the thing that we normally refer to as space and think of as having 3 dimensions (or spacetime that we think of as having 4 dimensions). That's just the most well known one.
Another well known use of this mathematical model called dimensionality is the concept of "phase space". As an example of this, think of all the numbers required to entirely define the state, at a given instant, of a point particle at a location in physical space. It is 6. You need 3 for its position and 3 for its velocity. Now imagine a system of n particles (where n is any whole number) like, for example, an ideal gas. The number of numbers required to define the state of that gas is 6n. Now you can imagine a "space" with 6n dimensions. In that multidimensional space a single point represents the entire state of that gas  the state of all its contituent particles. A line in that space could represent the evolution of that gas over time.
These are the ways in which the concepts of dimensionality and space can be used to manage the complexity of modelling complex systems.
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it is because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea."  Eric Cantona.
 Sandis36
 New Trial Member
 Posts: 19
 Joined: March 2nd, 2017, 4:42 pm
Re: My NonParadoxical Explanation of Time and Space
The 3 dimensions are forward, up and to the side. The 4. dimension is time. But the 4. space dimension is the fact that the space of the universe is without edge but everything belongs to it. Only after that comes the time, dimension or not. This is how the reality is like probably, not like in the mainstream cosmology. Does anybody agree?
There maybe some different things, the spirit world, the warm holes, ether and others, but physically we know only know these four and the time.
There maybe some different things, the spirit world, the warm holes, ether and others, but physically we know only know these four and the time.
 Toledoroy
 Posts: 29
 Joined: October 28th, 2016, 2:21 pm
 Favorite Philosopher: Socrates
Re: My NonParadoxical Explanation of Time and Space
That's not a new theory. That's actually the reason time is referred to as the 4th dimension.
 Sandis36
 New Trial Member
 Posts: 19
 Joined: March 2nd, 2017, 4:42 pm
Re: My NonParadoxical Explanation of Time and Space
Time is not similar as the space dimensions. There exists at least 5 dimensions in the reality. The 4. space dimension is a space dimension, not exactly similar as the other three, and it is in the reality, it is the fact that the space of the universe has no outside and everything belongs to it. These has not been taken as facts in the modern astronomical cosmology, but philosophically they are rational facts.
I also like more the larger cosmology, the philosophical cosmology than the astronomical cosmology.
These 5 can be seen in the reality. In mathematics there can be more, but in the physical reality we now can see only these 5. Of course there can be other realities, the spirit world, the things of Quantum Theory and so on, but they are not clear yet for us.
I also like more the larger cosmology, the philosophical cosmology than the astronomical cosmology.
These 5 can be seen in the reality. In mathematics there can be more, but in the physical reality we now can see only these 5. Of course there can be other realities, the spirit world, the things of Quantum Theory and so on, but they are not clear yet for us.
 Atreyu
 Posts: 1660
 Joined: June 17th, 2014, 3:11 am
 Favorite Philosopher: P.D. Ouspensky
 Location: Orlando, FL
Re: My NonParadoxical Explanation of Time and Space
Apparently few people really understand the modern spacetime paradigm.
Consider an ordinary timeline. This is mapping time as space.
The timeline itself is the fourth dimension of space (or "spacetime").
The plane on which the timeline is drawn is the fifth dimension of space.
The "room" on which the plane exists, on which the timeline is drawn, is the 6th dimension of space.
If you imagine our presentday Universe as a dot moving through 3D space, much like a speck of dust floating around a room, you can visualize 6 dimensions of space. The 3 dimensions of space in which the speck of dust is moving through is 3 more dimensions of space than the speck of dust itself, which is representing our 3D Universe. Therefore the room the speck of dust is traveling through represent the 4th, 5th, and 6th dimensions of space, which, due to the fact that our 3D Universe is moving relative to, gives us our perception of time. This is why we have the idea of a "before, now, and after" > it's because our entire 3D Universe is moving within higher dimensions of space....
Consider an ordinary timeline. This is mapping time as space.
The timeline itself is the fourth dimension of space (or "spacetime").
The plane on which the timeline is drawn is the fifth dimension of space.
The "room" on which the plane exists, on which the timeline is drawn, is the 6th dimension of space.
If you imagine our presentday Universe as a dot moving through 3D space, much like a speck of dust floating around a room, you can visualize 6 dimensions of space. The 3 dimensions of space in which the speck of dust is moving through is 3 more dimensions of space than the speck of dust itself, which is representing our 3D Universe. Therefore the room the speck of dust is traveling through represent the 4th, 5th, and 6th dimensions of space, which, due to the fact that our 3D Universe is moving relative to, gives us our perception of time. This is why we have the idea of a "before, now, and after" > it's because our entire 3D Universe is moving within higher dimensions of space....
 Sandis36
 New Trial Member
 Posts: 19
 Joined: March 2nd, 2017, 4:42 pm
Re: My NonParadoxical Explanation of Time and Space
This is not clear, what you mean by the fifth dimension here, and the 6. So it is also not clear, how the timeline is the 4. dimension. You just state this, with explanations that are not good and understandable. The time is not similar as the space dimensions. Only the fact that the space of the universe contains everything can be a space dimension. Rationally, not exactly, strictly logically. Of course everything depends of the fitting of the model to the evidence, we can make models infinitely. But the explanation of the evidence also depends of the model.
 DumDumTaDum
 New Trial Member
 Posts: 9
 Joined: May 19th, 2017, 12:19 am
Re: My NonParadoxical Explanation of Time and Space
What is meant by the word "dimension" in this context. From reading the posts in this 'thread', and other texts about proposed mathematical structures by which existence may be symbolically represented, it appears to me that 'dimension' refers to that which might otherwise be termed a 'characteristic' or 'quality of'. Conceptually problems arise when these differencesbywhichweestablishexistence are, as it seems often occurs, described in terms of the particular qualities of space  i.e. length, breadth and height / X, Y & Z axis & planes / lines / points etc. Might it not be more helpful to simply consider them as existential 'fields', each with their own defining characteristic, within which the fundamental mathematical operations and relationships apply i.e. addition/subtraction, equivalence, identity etc.
 Sandis36
 New Trial Member
 Posts: 19
 Joined: March 2nd, 2017, 4:42 pm
Re: My NonParadoxical Explanation of Time and Space
Yes, in fact there is only 3 dimensions of the space. The 4. dimension of the space is not a similar dimension, it is only the fact that the space of the whole universe is such that there is no outside but everything is there. It is problematic how this should be interpreted in mathematical form. The time is also in the reality, but it is not a space dimension, which it is only in the Theory of the General Relativity. Successfully that. In fact it is not a space dimension. And the space of the whole universe has no time, or at least the universe has a different time as the particles in the space of the universe.
This all we can rationally say as philosophers. The models in astronomical cosmology are a little different thing. The philosophy is a larger cosmology.
This all we can rationally say as philosophers. The models in astronomical cosmology are a little different thing. The philosophy is a larger cosmology.
 DumDumTaDum
 New Trial Member
 Posts: 9
 Joined: May 19th, 2017, 12:19 am
Re: My NonParadoxical Explanation of Time and Space
Unfortunately I have not watched this post frequently, and cannot therefore expect anyone else to return to it.
Further to the questions approached in this thread: I realise I do not have the mathematical training or aptitude to comment usefully nor to assess the comments of others, with regard specifically to matters of Physics in general and posited relationships between purported 'dimensions'.
Further to the questions approached in this thread: I realise I do not have the mathematical training or aptitude to comment usefully nor to assess the comments of others, with regard specifically to matters of Physics in general and posited relationships between purported 'dimensions'.

 Posts: 94
 Joined: September 28th, 2015, 12:57 am
Re: My NonParadoxical Explanation of Time and Space
There can only be three classical spatial dimensions for that is the only number we can actually
experience. For we would not exist if the Universe was composed of any other number of them
experience. For we would not exist if the Universe was composed of any other number of them
A MIND IS LIKE A PARACHUTE : IT DOES NOT WORK UNLESS IT IS OPEN
 DumDumTaDum
 New Trial Member
 Posts: 9
 Joined: May 19th, 2017, 12:19 am
Re: My NonParadoxical Explanation of Time and Space
The question of the number of spatial dimensions  classical or relativistic and their relationship to other postulated existential dimensions seem to me to be more properly the field of mathematics and physics than philosophy. There does for instance seem to be clear experiential evidence for the notion of time dilation (ref. Wikipedia entry on Time Dilation). In any case a claim made on the basis of what "we can actually experience"  without explication of what is to be understood by the terms 'actually' and 'experience', cannot be addressed. Certainly if the phrase refers to that which is perceived by human beings, such 'experience' is notoriously unreliable and inconsistent.
 Sandis36
 New Trial Member
 Posts: 19
 Joined: March 2nd, 2017, 4:42 pm
Re: My NonParadoxical Explanation of Time and Space
That's right. There is only 3 dimensions in the space. Other things are not dimensions of the space, they are different ones. As I stated in the previous post. Mathematically they can be interpreted as dimension, but when they are not, some other way to handle them should be better. Time and the limitlessness of the space are the too obvious other things. The spirit world, the invisible world, would be one candidate too.

 Posts: 316
 Joined: April 19th, 2016, 2:53 pm
Re: My NonParadoxical Explanation of Time and Space
Yes, and those three spatial dimensions make the form through which the material world is for us. And because we exist temporally, that is, our being consists of successive experiences of the world, also the world must be temporal, consisting of material events. We measure those events with our clocks, and now the situation becomes a bit more complicated, because those clocks go slower or faster depending on our position in relation to the clocks. Space and time get intertwined, and we have the concept of spacetime, which is the result of applying and extending our original, subjective time to the material world.Surreptitious57 wrote:There can only be three classical spatial dimensions for that is the only number we can actually
experience. For we would not exist if the Universe was composed of any other number of them