Well this isn't quite true. Cosmology can only trace back theinflation of the observable universe that began approx 13.7 billion years ago but that doesn't mean the whole universe as everything that exists ever had a beginning. We could exist in a multiverse for instance.Thinking critical wrote: ↑April 16th, 2018, 7:09 am 1) Our Universe has a beginning, it can be traced back to roughly less than 1 to 10th of a second from its origins.
2)Spacetime is intrinsic to the Universe, there is no before the beginning or we couldn't call it the beginning.
Did the universe exist for ever or does it have a beginning?
- ReasonMadeFlesh
- Posts: 744
- Joined: September 2nd, 2013, 11:07 pm
- Favorite Philosopher: Jesus Christ
- Location: Here & Now
Re: Did the universe exist for ever or does it have a beginning?
- ReasonMadeFlesh
- Posts: 744
- Joined: September 2nd, 2013, 11:07 pm
- Favorite Philosopher: Jesus Christ
- Location: Here & Now
Re: Did the universe exist for ever or does it have a beginning?
- ReasonMadeFlesh
- Posts: 744
- Joined: September 2nd, 2013, 11:07 pm
- Favorite Philosopher: Jesus Christ
- Location: Here & Now
Re: Did the universe exist for ever or does it have a beginning?
The only way for a spatiotemporally finite universe to overcome any of this is if there is all the other worlds are simply higher dimensions of our one real 13.7 billon year old one.
- ReasonMadeFlesh
- Posts: 744
- Joined: September 2nd, 2013, 11:07 pm
- Favorite Philosopher: Jesus Christ
- Location: Here & Now
Re: Did the universe exist for ever or does it have a beginning?
- Thinking critical
- Posts: 1793
- Joined: November 7th, 2011, 7:29 pm
- Favorite Philosopher: A.C Grayling
- Location: Perth, Australia (originally New Zealand)
Re: Did the universe exist for ever or does it have a beginning?
The observable Universe, the Universe and the Multiverse are three diiifefent things.ReasonMadeFlesh wrote: ↑June 6th, 2018, 10:40 pmWell this isn't quite true. Cosmology can only trace back theinflation of the observable universe that began approx 13.7 billion years ago but that doesn't mean the whole universe as everything that exists ever had a beginning. We could exist in a multiverse for instance.Thinking critical wrote: ↑April 16th, 2018, 7:09 am 1) Our Universe has a beginning, it can be traced back to roughly less than 1 to 10th of a second from its origins.
2)Spacetime is intrinsic to the Universe, there is no before the beginning or we couldn't call it the beginning.
The observable Universe refers to the part of the Unverse we can currently observe, 93 billion light years. It may be bigger but we have no way of knowing.
The Universe encompasses all that we can currently account for, the entire Cosmos and the beginning of spacetime. This is litterally the entire Uni(one)verse.
The multiverse is simply a hypothesis, there is no point in even speculating wether or not they have beginnings or not as their is no way of proving if they even exist.
-
- Posts: 948
- Joined: February 16th, 2018, 11:28 am
Re: Did the universe exist for ever or does it have a beginning?
- Thinking critical
- Posts: 1793
- Joined: November 7th, 2011, 7:29 pm
- Favorite Philosopher: A.C Grayling
- Location: Perth, Australia (originally New Zealand)
Re: Did the universe exist for ever or does it have a beginning?
The theory itself makes no reference or claim to the origin of the Universe, it simply concludes that there was a beginning.
After the moment where we struggle to apply our understanding of quantum gravity to the equation is where the individual theoretical and astro physicists strart to propose their own hypothesis such as multiverses, crunches and cyclic fluctuations e.c.t.
- ReasonMadeFlesh
- Posts: 744
- Joined: September 2nd, 2013, 11:07 pm
- Favorite Philosopher: Jesus Christ
- Location: Here & Now
Re: Did the universe exist for ever or does it have a beginning?
Exactly!Thinking critical wrote: ↑June 7th, 2018, 3:37 pm There is a common misconception that the origin of the Universe is encompassed in the Big Bang Theory, this is simply not the case.
And I am not postulating a multiverse I am merely proposing it, but it seems an unnecessary hypothesis. It's also different from Everett's many-worlds interpretation of QM.
It really is just speculation at this point tbh.
Nobody knows if the universe had a beginning, although we can trace back it's expansion 13 7 billion years.
-
- Posts: 1780
- Joined: January 27th, 2012, 9:32 pm
- Favorite Philosopher: Hermese Trismegistus
Re: Did the universe exist for ever or does it have a beginning?
If you do not believe in the Theory of a BIg Bang, then you should not use the evidence of an Expanding Universe, as prof of a BIg Bang.
Red shift is evidence of what existed prior to the beginning of The Creative Process.
- Thinking critical
- Posts: 1793
- Joined: November 7th, 2011, 7:29 pm
- Favorite Philosopher: A.C Grayling
- Location: Perth, Australia (originally New Zealand)
Re: Did the universe exist for ever or does it have a beginning?
Red shifts matched predictions of the expanding Universe, meaning Hubbles observations were consistent with the Big Bang model.Wayne92587 wrote: ↑June 17th, 2018, 1:02 pm The evidence offered up as prof of the Big Bang is the Theory of an Expanding Universe.
If you do not believe in the Theory of a BIg Bang, then you should not use the evidence of an Expanding Universe, as prof of a BIg Bang.
Red shift is evidence of what existed prior to the beginning of The Creative Process.
What does Red shift is evidence of what existed prior to the beginning even me mean?
-
- Posts: 1780
- Joined: January 27th, 2012, 9:32 pm
- Favorite Philosopher: Hermese Trismegistus
Re: Did the universe exist for ever or does it have a beginning?
In the beginning there was only Darkness upon the Deep, Reality, existence itself being a Big Black Whole.
- Thinking critical
- Posts: 1793
- Joined: November 7th, 2011, 7:29 pm
- Favorite Philosopher: A.C Grayling
- Location: Perth, Australia (originally New Zealand)
Re: Did the universe exist for ever or does it have a beginning?
I don't see how redshifts could be evidence of what existed prior to the first event, it logically doesn't follow. "Redshifts" are simply recognising the way light behaves as its source is moving away from us, so when astronomers witnessed distant galaxies demonstrating these characteristics through the Hubble they concluded that this was sufficient evidence to prove the Universe was in fact expanding. So redshifts are evidence that the Universe is expanding, nothing else.Wayne92587 wrote: ↑June 19th, 2018, 1:27 am I do not deny that Red Shift exists, could Red Shift be evidence of what existed prior to the so called Big Bang.
In the beginning there was only Darkness upon the Deep, Reality, existence itself being a Big Black Whole.
-
- Posts: 1780
- Joined: January 27th, 2012, 9:32 pm
- Favorite Philosopher: Hermese Trismegistus
Re: Did the universe exist for ever or does it have a beginning?
You seem to be stuck on the Big Bang, the Expanding Universe.
I am not.
In the Beginning, there was only Darkness, a Big Black Whole, upon the Deep.
-
- Posts: 1780
- Joined: January 27th, 2012, 9:32 pm
- Favorite Philosopher: Hermese Trismegistus
Re: Did the universe exist for ever or does it have a beginning?
- Thinking critical
- Posts: 1793
- Joined: November 7th, 2011, 7:29 pm
- Favorite Philosopher: A.C Grayling
- Location: Perth, Australia (originally New Zealand)
Re: Did the universe exist for ever or does it have a beginning?
Again, how are redshifts connected to the process which was present during the origin of the Universe? This makes no sense whatsoever.Wayne92587 wrote: ↑June 28th, 2018, 6:16 am Red Shift is evidence of what existed prior to the beginning of the Creative Process, of that which existed without substance, nothingness, the building blocks of the Heavens and the earth, the God Particle, the Higgs Boson.
I am not stuck on it, I understand it. The BBT has overwhelming evidence to support it and is one of the most highly researched and supported theories in modern science.You seem to be stuck on the Big Bang, the Expanding Universe.
The redshifts you are referring to are direct evidence of an expanding Universe, predicted by the BBT before they were discovered.
In the beginning there was no Spacetime and now there is.In the Beginning, there was only Darkness, a Big Black Whole, upon the Deep.
2023/2024 Philosophy Books of the Month
Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul
by Mitzi Perdue
February 2023
Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness
by Chet Shupe
March 2023