Can a man-made computer become conscious?
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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?
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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?
Jan Sand wrote: ↑June 22nd, 2018, 3:09 am To examine religions, ideals, hopes and wishes with a realistic eye and compare them to the actualities of performance it is impossible to accept anything but disappointment and outright disgust at humanity's actualities and disdain for decency and conformity to any noble purpose, Our present expectations clearly demonstrate how the best of understandings and intentions have been disastrously twisted to spread human misery and total neglect of the necessities for even a marginally decent future. Hatred and fear of each other is a well established tactic of those who would control the planet and every major advance in human understanding is violently distorted towards final total destruction. This is too obvious to deny.
You and many others are not deluded.The very fact that you wrote the above is good , not bad.
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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?
- SimpleGuy
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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?
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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?
Jan, the way America and Europe are governed now is much like the governing elite are selfish 'aristocrats'.China and India are fast going the same way. The old aristocratic dynasties were counterbalanced by religious structures of governance, typical of Christendom in the middle ages of Europe. The religious ideologies are moribund now. However perhaps a new and reasonable religious ideology will appear and arise to lead proles to a greater degree of freedom sufficient to lead to equal distribution of wealth and sustainable farming and energy sources.
Anther question. After the apocalyse, whether this manifests as pandemic, starvation, thirst, or war of attrition, and allowing for a viable natural environment, would there not be pockets of survivors who would revert to old tribal methods of governance? These survivors would of course predominantly include many former aristocrats who like Trump would have avoided much of apocalyptic danger. However Trump types would not adapt well to true natural dangers where lies don't serve.
The refugee crisis can only get more so. African are coming to Europe and will eventually equalise the standard of living between Africa and Europe. Same in the US Mexicans and other emigrants cannot be held off forever unless Trump becomes like Kim Jong Un.
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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?
Jan, the way America and Europe are governed now is much like the governing elite are selfish 'aristocrats'.China and India are fast going the same way. The old aristocratic dynasties were counterbalanced by religious structures of governance, typical of Christendom in the middle ages of Europe. The religious ideologies are moribund now. However perhaps a new and reasonable religious ideology will appear and arise to lead proles to a greater degree of freedom sufficient to lead to equal distribution of wealth and sustainable farming and energy sources.
Anther question. After the apocalyse, whether this manifests as pandemic, starvation, thirst, or war of attrition, and allowing for a viable natural environment, would there not be pockets of survivors who would revert to old tribal methods of governance? These survivors would of course predominantly include many former aristocrats who like Trump would have avoided much of apocalyptic danger. However Trump types would not adapt well to true natural dangers where lies don't serve.
The refugee crisis can only get more so. African are coming to Europe and will eventually equalise the standard of living between Africa and Europe. Same in the US Mexicans and other emigrants cannot be held off forever unless Trump becomes like Kim Jong Un."
There are many very tentative suppositions in the above quote. To put it bluntly, the unexpected can only be expected. Before the rise of the digital revolution the head of IBM had predicted that around five or six computers would be quite sufficient for the entire world's needs. Technology has a way of revising the whole world in very unexpected ways. Within the territory of this discussion the rise of self programming computers which is occurring right now, whether or not they will acquire self consciousness, is the tip of unknown possibilities that no one can predict. Especially joining with the proliferation of 3D printing and the huge jump in genetic engineering sophistication. The terrain of future fantasy prediction is probably beyond reasonable supposition. The idiotically destructive nature of previous and current government and economic power has a very good chance of wiping the planet back to obliteration of any biologic possibility and the short time for that end seems to be a matter of decades at best, but the mechanical intelligence we have created may survive and prosper. My lack of optimism is rather obvious and I can only hope I am wrong. Whatever the case, if humans do not change radically, they are a lost cause. The end may come with artificial viruses or nuclear weapons or, at end, with bows and arrows or rusty kitchen knives, but humans have always been greatly superior with hatred than with love and that skill seems not to have lessened.
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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?
Depends on your army, most of the ones I knew seemed quite happy.
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Your common sense and prudence is commendable Jan. The United Nations peace keeping forces are distrusted by peoples who have learned general distrust of armed men.
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Power is not the same as power to good . That sense of human decency is a source of power, and is not dead yet.
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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?
In the case of humanity now voraciously intent on destroying this planet and its inhabitants for gains that cannot be separated from immense stupidity and massive incapability to grasp how psychotically insane events are progressing, I can accept this as indicating that all of past human history clearly demonstrates that humanity has always demonstrated that the most self interested and most callous individuals have always been the most powerful in directing human civilization. On that basis I am completely foolish to expect any other outcome than the frightful collapse of everything I had hoped for in the development of civilization. Those now struggling to preserve the planet and sectors of humanity that believe in a decent and caring society are obviously succumbing to the the intensely aroused forces of hatred and disdain and brutality and tsunami of fear now controlling the dynamics of civilization throughout the world and whoever attempts to stop that is quickly crushed. I would, of course, like to be hopeful , but I am too stupid to find a way. I am quite limited in this matter.
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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?
I get swept up in your pessimism. I wonder why I try to rebut it. I wonder if I am using this forum as a diversion. I hope not. It becomes more and more apparent that you yourself are genuine in your posts.One must not demand of the unraveling of causes into effects to be other than the capabilities they exhibit, but spend effort in dealing with those effects to maximize what good is left possible.
The enormity of evil has always been visible throughout man's past. So that actualised evils can be dealt with we have to use causality in as much depth as we are capable of. One of the variables that causes evil is ignorance as you have pretty well stated. Another variable that causes evil is ideology which takes precedence over facts. I don't class pessimism or optimism as ideologies , as pessimism and optimism are attitudes that lack narratives.
With regard to US politics today, there are Americans who support the force of ignorance, and those Americans are optimists. Pessimism is a safer attitude.
AI machines lack attitude.Don't they?
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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?
I must admit that what happened in my life gave me a rather different point of view and at 92 I cannot expect to have any major changes. I might live a couple of more years and still have no major health difficulties but cannot see humanity undergoing a kind of change that might save the world - the potential simply is not evident.I grew up under Franklin Roosevelt and as relatively decent as he was he refused a shipload of Jews to enter the USA when they were desperate to escape the Nazis and no president after him ever reached his level of compassion and all his efforts to save the USA from its economic collapse in the depression were pretty weak compared to the huge upsurge of economics as a result of WWII. It seems that wars have become the most effective basis of economic progress humanity has evolved and killing people and stealing their resources has worked wonders right from the beginning of the USA and for many other countries as well. With the latest in nuclear weaponry and the conflicts over destructive energy sources the inevitable destruction of the sustaining life on the planet appears to me to be reaching the point that it cannot be reversed. It is important to understand that neither Trump nor Hitler nor Stalin nor any of the most frightful leaders of humanity could have been granted the power to do what they desired without the will and cooperation of the massive support of their people. It is humanity itself that must take credit and guilt for what was and is being done and who must suffer the consequences. No doubt the Holocaust. amongst all other major tragedies, was horrible but Israel probably would not exist without it. Whatever that means is a bit more than I prefer to contemplate, and what it implies about humanity I would rather not get into at the moment.
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