What does metaphysics tell us about the world?

Discuss any topics related to metaphysics (the philosophical study of the principles of reality) or epistemology (the philosophical study of knowledge) in this forum.
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Peter Holmes
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Re: What does metaphysics tell us about the world?

Post by Peter Holmes » July 29th, 2017, 3:01 pm

No worries, and I'm sorry if it looked like I was trying to dis you. I think the debate about whether metaphysics makes any sense at all comes from the meaning of the word 'meta-physics' - whether it makes sense to talk about things that are 'after' or 'outside' nature - ta physica.

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-1-
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Re: What does metaphysics tell us about the world?

Post by -1- » July 29th, 2017, 3:18 pm

Peter Holmes wrote:No worries, and I'm sorry if it looked like I was trying to dis you. I think the debate about whether metaphysics makes any sense at all comes from the meaning of the word 'meta-physics' - whether it makes sense to talk about things that are 'after' or 'outside' nature - ta physica.
Peter, I never felt you were dissing me. In fact, my embarrassment was not overwhelming, and I found the whole situation funny.

Thanks nevertheless for catching me on this mistake.

My explanation was true in every letter. You can check the facts: esz -- smart mind, smarts, mind, reasoning organ, in Hungarian, totel - misspelled total, Arisztid -- name of character in proverbial Hungarian jokes about the aristocracy.

-- Updated 2017 July 29th, 3:26 pm to add the following --
Togo1 wrote: I think you're confusing two different meanings of 'dismiss', confusing ignoring the contents of the the bin with removing the bin from existance. Categorising something as unreal appears to imply that the contents of the unreal bin should be ignored, or more properly, that we shouldn't be allowed to ask questions about such things. It doesn't make the bin or its contents disappear.
Okay, I see your point now. Dismissing evidence in court or dismissing a charge means not considering it, as if it were not in existence. Dismissing a soldier or dismissing a person from a meeting means to send them out of the meeting, and they are no longer present.

My understanding of the word "dismiss" is only partly "no questions allowed" and "ought to be ignored". To me it meant to pretend, in the sense you used it, that it never has existed. Because "dismiss" means to send away, in one meaning.

But if you just "quarantine" the contents of the bin so dismissed as you have suggested, then I have to re-think my proposition, and I will or won't, according to my fancy.

So stay tuned, but only if you wish (naturally) and be prepared that I may or may not revisit the issue.
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Togo1
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Re: What does metaphysics tell us about the world?

Post by Togo1 » August 10th, 2017, 5:51 pm

Argh, I wondered why I wasn't getting a reply, and it turns out my reply didn't actually get published. Let's try again.

The very idea of dividing the universe into real and unreal is metaphysics. It's a proposal about the nature of the universe, and would need definition and/or justification just like any other.

The challenge is not to metaphysicians, the challenge is to justify the belief that there are two categories of things, which need to be treated in different ways.

So what is meant by real and unreal? You say scientific language is real, but is the language of higher mathematics, things like N-dimensional hypercubes, or imaginary numbers, real or unreal? If real, what makes them real? It can't be their relationship to the realm world, because they don't exist in the real world/ If unreal, why are they still useful?

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Re: What does metaphysics tell us about the world?

Post by -1- » August 11th, 2017, 1:43 am

Togo1 wrote: So what is meant by real and unreal? You say scientific language is real, but is the language of higher mathematics, things like N-dimensional hypercubes, or imaginary numbers, real or unreal? If real, what makes them real? It can't be their relationship to the realm world, because they don't exist in the real world/ If unreal, why are they still useful?
Oh, I see a myriad little possibilities for metaphysical realities / surrealities to help us get along in the real, tangible world.

Imaginary numbers: used very efficiently in electronic calculations when power consumption of a sinus wave is calculated (root mean squared).

N-dimensional hypercubes: makes us sense to imagine worlds of four linear directions to contain an infinite number of three-dimensional worlds, which would facilitate the transportation of three-d material from one three-d universe to another. Such as which may have been our very own Bing Bang.

Metaphysical laws governing sophistry: "Nothing can be and not be at the same time and in the same respect" is a very useful thing to apply to arguments when applicable.
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Togo1
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Re: What does metaphysics tell us about the world?

Post by Togo1 » August 28th, 2017, 12:48 pm

-1- wrote:
Togo1 wrote: So what is meant by real and unreal? You say scientific language is real, but is the language of higher mathematics, things like N-dimensional hypercubes, or imaginary numbers, real or unreal? If real, what makes them real? It can't be their relationship to the realm world, because they don't exist in the real world/ If unreal, why are they still useful?
Oh, I see a myriad little possibilities for metaphysical realities / surrealities to help us get along in the real, tangible world.
Yes, that's kinda my point. Peter is proposing that any speculation about them is a category error.

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