Why does Existence Exist?

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UniversalAlien
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Why does Existence Exist?

Post by UniversalAlien » April 6th, 2016, 6:07 am

I started two posts here on Philosophy Forums :

"What is the reason for Human existence?"
http://onlinephilosophyclub.com/forums/ ... f=1&t=6353

"Why do you Exist?"
http://onlinephilosophyclub.com/forums/ ... =1&t=13538

Both posts have some interesting views by people on this fourm. But I am missing something - I missed the real First question that should have been asked: "Why does Existence Exist?" Can we question the reason for existence itself :?: Or is it a totally impossible question with no hope of even a vague answer?

I will start with no opinion of my own - But would be curious if any of you had a view on this - Can we question the state of
existence itself? - And if you do, what can you come up with :?:

“Indeed, the only truly serious questions are ones that even a child can formulate. Only the most naive of questions are truly serious. They are the questions with no answers. A question with no answer is a barrier that cannot be breached. In other words, it is questions with no answers that set the limit of human possibilities, describe the boundaries of human existence.”
― Milan Kundera, The Unbearable Lightness of Being
“It's enough for me to be sure that you and I exist at this moment.”
― Gabriel Garcí­a Márquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude

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Aristocles
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Re: Why does Existence Exist?

Post by Aristocles » April 6th, 2016, 6:49 am

UniversalAlien wrote: Can we question the state of
existence itself? - And if you do, what can you come up with :?:
I will give my permission.

No limits... I try to keep mine within pleasant reasoned consistency.

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Rr6
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Re: Why does Existence Exist?

Post by Rr6 » April 6th, 2016, 12:32 pm

There is no reason or purpose for existence. Existence is 3-fold as seen below with 1a, 1b and 1c. Perhaps a degree of triangular, structural integrity inherent, or apriori, of existence .

Read the following as table of contents of book entitled "U"niverse: The Cosmic Hierarchy

"U"niverse: The Cosmic Hierarchy
....1a} metaphysical-1, mind/intellect/concept ergo concepts of God, Universe, Space, Concepts etc.....
........spirit-1 aka spirit-of-intent........
-----line---of---demarcation---------------------------------------------------
...1b} macro-infinite non-occupied space aka metaphysical-2
....1c} finite, occupied space Universe aka UniVerse
2) Universe: Occupied Space aka God, Cosmos, UniVerse etc....
....2a} fermions and bosons
......aka observed physical/reality as observed time aka spirit-2.........
......2b} gravity
...........aka quasi-physical or metaphysical-3 and spirit-3......
......2c} dark energy
.........aka quasi-physical or metaphysical-4 and spirit-4..........

r6.
"U"niverse > UniVerse > universe > I-verse < you-verse < we-verse < them-verse

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Alec Smart
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Re: Why does Existence Exist?

Post by Alec Smart » April 6th, 2016, 3:19 pm

Rr6 wrote:There is no reason or purpose for existence. Existence is 3-fold as seen below with 1a, 1b and 1c. Perhaps a degree of triangular, structural integrity inherent, or apriori, of existence .

Read the following as table of contents of book entitled "U"niverse: The Cosmic Hierarchy

"U"niverse: The Cosmic Hierarchy
....1a} metaphysical-1, mind/intellect/concept ergo concepts of God, Universe, Space, Concepts etc.....
........spirit-1 aka spirit-of-intent........
-----line---of---demarcation---------------------------------------------------
...1b} macro-infinite non-occupied space aka metaphysical-2
....1c} finite, occupied space Universe aka UniVerse
2) Universe: Occupied Space aka God, Cosmos, UniVerse etc....
....2a} fermions and bosons
......aka observed physical/reality as observed time aka spirit-2.........
......2b} gravity
...........aka quasi-physical or metaphysical-3 and spirit-3......
......2c} dark energy
.........aka quasi-physical or metaphysical-4 and spirit-4..........

r6.
when it comes to giving an answer to a question that cannot be answered, I would say that this is probably the closest thing you are going to get to not an answer.
Smart by name and Alec by nature.

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UniversalAlien
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Re: Why does Existence Exist?

Post by UniversalAlien » April 6th, 2016, 3:48 pm

Soon after posing the question I started thinking about it - and came up with the simplest of answers:

Existence exists because 'non-existence' can not exist !!!

If there ever was a state of non-existence then existence could never have occurred - As existence could not have come
from a non-existent state - There never was, nor will there ever be a non-existent state.

Therefor the logical conclusion to reach is existence is eternal, always was and always will be.

So fear not fellow philosophers existence is nothing to worry about - EXISTENCE ALWAYS EXISTED !!!

And as far as the question as to why existence always existed - I believe that is an eternal 'prime state' that can not
be questioned. But you can try......








"SCIENCEFICTIONALISM the Religion of the FUTURE"
http://universalspacealienpeoplesassoci ... uture.html

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Rr6
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Re: Why does Existence Exist?

Post by Rr6 » April 6th, 2016, 5:38 pm

Perhaps the best answer is associated with triangularly stable, structural integrity of three-ness in general.

Triangles has three kind of three-ness;
1) vertexes,
2) lines-of-relationship,
3) angles.

Protons and neutrons have 3 quarks, 36 kinds of quark combinations = 3 * 12.

3 prime colors as red, green and blue, with yellow taking place one of these in artistic circumstances.

Mother, father, progeny.

Double helix is like a ladder, it has the two sides and set of rung relationships between those two.

31 bilateral{ left-right } spinal nerves stem from spinal chord.

Bilateral heme-spheres connected--- mediated by ----via corpus callosum.

This list goes on an on. There appears to be apparrent cosmic two-ness{ duality ), three-ness( integrity ) and four-ness( 3D + time }, that are basis of all existence. Five-ness may also come into play along those pathways of thought also. I dunno

Perhaps best to leave those ideas to philosopher types. :)

r6
Rr6 wrote:There is no reason or purpose for existence. Existence is 3-fold as seen below with 1a, 1b and 1c. Perhaps a degree of triangular, structural integrity inherent, or apriori, of existence .
Read the following as table of contents of book entitled "U"niverse: The Cosmic Hierarchy
"U"niverse: The Cosmic Hierarchy
....1a} metaphysical-1, mind/intellect/concept ergo concepts of God, Universe, Space, Concepts etc.....
........spirit-1 aka spirit-of-intent........
-----line---of---demarcation---------------------------------------------------
...1b} macro-infinite non-occupied space aka metaphysical-2
....1c} finite, occupied space Universe aka UniVerse
2) Universe: Occupied Space aka God, Cosmos, UniVerse etc....
....2a} fermions and bosons
......aka observed physical/reality as observed time aka spirit-2.........
......2b} gravity
...........aka quasi-physical or metaphysical-3 and spirit-3......
......2c} dark energy
.........aka quasi-physical or metaphysical-4 and spirit-4..........
r6.
"U"niverse > UniVerse > universe > I-verse < you-verse < we-verse < them-verse

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Greta
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Re: Why does Existence Exist?

Post by Greta » April 6th, 2016, 11:33 pm

UniversalAlien wrote:So fear not fellow philosophers existence is nothing to worry about - EXISTENCE ALWAYS EXISTED !!!
If not for the capitalisation and bolding I would agree ;)

Usually this question is framed as "why is there something rather than nothing".

There is a school of thought that nothingness can exist but it is so pregnant with unlimited possibilities that "something" would almost immediately appear - and this new "something" would initially be without bounds until its own physicality set its limits.

Most other schools of thought posit nothingness to be a relative or theoretical construct.
This space left intentionally blank.

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Rr6
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Re: Why does Existence Exist?

Post by Rr6 » April 6th, 2016, 11:52 pm

We not only live in a finite, occupied space Universe, that , Universe is complemented by a finite set of inviolate cosmic laws/principles ergo what is possible is limited to what does not violate that finite set of cosmic laws/principles.

Ex there can only exist 5 and only 5 regular/symmetrical polyhedra .

r6
Rr6 wrote:Perhaps the best answer is associated with triangularly stable, structural integrity of three-ness in general.
Triangles has three kind of three-ness;
1) vertexes,
2) lines-of-relationship,
3) angles.
This list goes on an on. There appears to be apparrent cosmic two-ness{ duality ), three-ness( integrity ) and four-ness( 3D + time }, that are basis of all existence. Five-ness may also come into play along those pathways of thought also. I dunno
Perhaps best to leave those ideas to philosopher types. :)
Rr6 wrote:There is no reason or purpose for existence. Existence is 3-fold as seen below with 1a, 1b and 1c. Perhaps a degree of triangular, structural integrity inherent, or apriori, of existence .
Read the following as table of contents of book entitled "U"niverse: The Cosmic Hierarchy
"U"niverse: The Cosmic Hierarchy
....1a} metaphysical-1, mind/intellect/concept ergo concepts of God, Universe, Space, Concepts etc.....
........spirit-1 aka spirit-of-intent........
-----line---of---demarcation---------------------------------------------------
...1b} macro-infinite non-occupied space aka metaphysical-2
....1c} finite, occupied space Universe aka UniVerse
2) Universe: Occupied Space aka God, Cosmos, UniVerse etc....
....2a} fermions and bosons
......aka observed physical/reality as observed time aka spirit-2.........
......2b} gravity
...........aka quasi-physical or metaphysical-3 and spirit-3......
......2c} dark energy
.........aka quasi-physical or metaphysical-4 and spirit-4..........
r6.
"U"niverse > UniVerse > universe > I-verse < you-verse < we-verse < them-verse

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UniversalAlien
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Re: Why does Existence Exist?

Post by UniversalAlien » April 7th, 2016, 6:06 am

Greta wrote:
UniversalAlien wrote:So fear not fellow philosophers existence is nothing to worry about - EXISTENCE ALWAYS EXISTED !!!
If not for the capitalisation and bolding I would agree ;)

Usually this question is framed as "why is there something rather than nothing".

There is a school of thought that nothingness can exist but it is so pregnant with unlimited possibilities that "something" would almost immediately appear - and this new "something" would initially be without bounds until its own physicality set its limits.

Most other schools of thought posit nothingness to be a relative or theoretical construct.
Yes, nothingness can be envisioned by the mind - but only in relative terms - And relative to what? - to something.

I question whether the mind is even capable of envisioning true nothingness? For true nothingness implies an absolute state of nothingness - And again, once nothingness is absolute absolutely nothing can exist - It could never have been, nor could it ever occur - For, even theoretically, once such a state occurs then all existence ends as if it never occurred. Is there
any reason to contemplate such a state? Why even consider something that never was and probably will never be?

Better to consider Black Holes, Dark matter, and even a hypothetical anti-matter - gives us something to work with.

The Sun will probably rise tomorrow as it has for millions of years; And existence will continue to exist as it always has.
“You said we all want there to be more than this! Well, there's always more than this. There's always something you don't know.”
― Patrick Ness, More Than This
“In one drop of water are found all the secrets of all the oceans; in one aspect of You are found all the aspects of existence.”
― Kahlil Gibran

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Re: Why does Existence Exist?

Post by Spiral Out » April 7th, 2016, 6:35 am

Existence is contained entirely within itself. The only reason existence can be known is because we ourselves (conscious awareness) exist.

As Greta pointed out, it is the "why is there something rather than nothing?" question rephrased. It is an invalid question. It is a false dichotomy. The suggestion is that something must exist absolutely or that there would be absolutely nothing. This is incorrect. Both the Universe and the Void are true, simultaneous, and necessary.

Both the Universe and the Void are at least two fundamental components of our conscious being.

Existence brings about the awareness of things and the lack of things. Our existence is the reason for an understanding of the existence (Universe) and the Void.
Greta wrote:There is a school of thought that nothingness can exist but it is so pregnant with unlimited possibilities that "something" would almost immediately appear - and this new "something" would initially be without bounds until its own physicality set its limits.
The Void is a subjective nothing within the objective something (Universe). The Void is not part of the Universe itself and therefore not subject to universal logic or rules. The Void and the Universe can never meet.
Dedicated to the fine art of thinking.

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Re: Why does Existence Exist?

Post by Greta » April 7th, 2016, 8:05 am

UniversalAlien wrote:Yes, nothingness can be envisioned by the mind - but only in relative terms - And relative to what? - to something.
A clear example is the idea of space, which is essentially thin zones of the same stuff from which everything is made. To an extremely dense objects like the near-singularities inside supermassive black holes normal matter as we experience it would be as insubstantial as space - a medium through which it can easily move.
UniversalAlien wrote:I question whether the mind is even capable of envisioning true nothingness?
Deep sleep and comas are perhaps the closest.
UniversalAlien wrote:Better to consider Black Holes, Dark matter, and even a hypothetical anti-matter - gives us something to work with.
Black holes are actually incredibly substantial, being of either stellar or supermassive mass. There are relative voids between the strands of the cosmic web and represent at least relative nothingness.

-- Updated 07 Apr 2016, 07:06 to add the following --
Greta wrote:There is a school of thought that nothingness can exist but it is so pregnant with unlimited possibilities that "something" would almost immediately appear - and this new "something" would initially be without bounds until its own physicality set its limits.
Spiral Out wrote:The Void is a subjective nothing within the objective something (Universe). The Void is not part of the Universe itself and therefore not subject to universal logic or rules. The Void and the Universe can never meet.
That definition brings us back to deep sleep, and coma and death.
This space left intentionally blank.

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Re: Why does Existence Exist?

Post by Ormond » April 7th, 2016, 8:29 am

UniversalAlien wrote:Why does Existence Exist?
The overwhelming vast majority of what exists doesn't actually exist, it's empty space between atomic particles, between stars etc.
If the things we want to hear could take us where we want to go, we'd already be there.

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Re: Why does Existence Exist?

Post by Rr6 » April 7th, 2016, 11:38 am

I.e. anythings is possible that does not violate the finite set of cosmic laws/principles.

Macro-infinite non-occupied space is not as hard to conceptualize as a macro-infinite occupied space.
The former is rational, logical common sense ergo naturally occurring conclusion, as one stems from observations of the other.

Some believe there is nothing between a proton and electron, however, there is idea of fields ex electromagnetic fields{ photons }.

If fields exist, then in my scenarios, then we have fields of gravity and dark between the electron and the proton.

I'm not opposed to ideas of truly non-occupied space occurring between the electron and proton. Via my Space-Time-Space mechanism I can envision that as a possibility.

However, I can envision within the electron or proton itself a possibility of truly non-occupied space.

For now, it is enough for me to work on getting my Space-Time-Space mechanisms developed and leave non-occupied space at that ultra-micro scale for later consideration.

r6
Rr6 wrote:We not only live in a finite, occupied space Universe, that , Universe is complemented by a finite set of inviolate cosmic laws/principles ergo what is possible is limited to what does not violate that finite set of cosmic laws/principles.
Ex there can only exist 5 and only 5 regular/symmetrical polyhedra .
r6
Rr6 wrote:Perhaps the best answer is associated with triangularly stable, structural integrity of three-ness in general.
Triangles has three kind of three-ness;
1) vertexes,
2) lines-of-relationship,
3) angles.
This list goes on an on. There appears to be apparrent cosmic two-ness{ duality ), three-ness( integrity ) and four-ness( 3D + time }, that are basis of all existence. Five-ness may also come into play along those pathways of thought also. I dunno
Perhaps best to leave those ideas to philosopher types. :)
"U"niverse > UniVerse > universe > I-verse < you-verse < we-verse < them-verse

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Re: Why does Existence Exist?

Post by UniversalAlien » April 7th, 2016, 6:11 pm

Spiral Out wrote:
The Void is a subjective nothing within the objective something (Universe). The Void is not part of the Universe itself and therefore not subject to universal logic or rules. The Void and the Universe can never meet.
I will grant anything and everything you wish to say about the void as you apparently know your subject.

But there is a big difference between 'the void' which is still a part of reality - the void does exist however you view it.

But my philosophical concept of ''nothingness' is not a state of emptiness which is a relative term - it is an absolute concept
that opposes all existence. Nothingness and Existence can not exist at the same time, or at anytime. If a state of nothingness were ever to occur all existence ends - And ends as though it never existed.

But don't worry - it will never happen - We are stuck here for forever and a day.










"SCIENCEFICTIONALISM the Religion of the FUTURE"
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Re: Why does Existence Exist?

Post by Spiral Out » April 7th, 2016, 7:48 pm

Greta wrote:That definition brings us back to deep sleep, and coma and death.
Deep sleep, coma and death are all things that exist only in the Universe. These things do not exist in the Void.

>>>
UniversalAlien wrote:But my philosophical concept of ''nothingness' is not a state of emptiness which is a relative term - it is an absolute concept
that opposes all existence. Nothingness and Existence can not exist at the same time, or at anytime. If a state of nothingness were ever to occur all existence ends - And ends as though it never existed.
You asked why existence exists. It exists only because you exist yourself and are aware of this existence. Otherwise, existence cannot exist.

Objective bias is clouding your mind. You spoke of "time". What is time? Is time not simply the perception of the change of states?

A state of nothingness will occur. It will occur when your consciousness ceases. You will be dead, and you will have never lived.

Time does not exist in the Void. The Void is infinite potential bound into a timeless event.
Dedicated to the fine art of thinking.

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