Why does Existence Exist?

Discuss any topics related to metaphysics (the philosophical study of the principles of reality) or epistemology (the philosophical study of knowledge) in this forum.
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Rr6
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Re: Why does Existence Exist?

Post by Rr6 »

Absolute void is just another way of saying truly non-occupied space.

The seeming void between earth and moon is not truly non-occupied. Fermions, bosons, gravity and dark energy occupy the space between Earth and moon.

Metaphysical-1, mind/intellect/concept
is not a space, it exists as a concept of space, irrespective of non-occupied or occupied.

So wherein lies the differrence between metaphysical-2, absolute void/truly non-occupied space and metaphysical-1, mind/intellect/concept.

Actual metaphysical-2,non-occupied space, is what embraces our finite, occupied space Universe, and allows for Universe expansion or contraction.

Metaphysical-1, mind/intellect/concept does not embrace, it only exists in complement to occupied space, and concepts that are not relevant to occupied space as relative or absolute truths.

Metaphysical-2, macro-infinite, non-occupied space both embraces and exists as a complement to our finite, occupied space Universe.

r6
Rr6 wrote:I.e. anythings is possible that does not violate the finite set of cosmic laws/principles.
Macro-infinite non-occupied space is not as hard to conceptualize as a macro-infinite occupied space.
The former is rational, logical common sense ergo naturally occurring conclusion, as one stems from observations of the other.
Some believe there is nothing between a proton and electron, however, there is idea of fields ex electromagnetic fields{ photons }.
If fields exist, then in my scenarios, then we have fields of gravity and dark between the electron and the proton.
I'm not opposed to ideas of truly non-occupied space occurring between the electron and proton. Via my Space-Time-Space mechanism I can envision that as a possibility.
However, I can envision within the electron or proton itself a possibility of truly non-occupied space.
For now, it is enough for me to work on getting my Space-Time-Space mechanisms developed and leave non-occupied space at that ultra-micro scale for later consideration.
r6
Rr6 wrote:We not only live in a finite, occupied space Universe, that , Universe is complemented by a finite set of inviolate cosmic laws/principles ergo what is possible is limited to what does not violate that finite set of cosmic laws/principles.
Ex there can only exist 5 and only 5 regular/symmetrical polyhedra .
r6

(Nested quote removed.)
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Re: Why does Existence Exist?

Post by UniversalAlien »

What we have here is a failure to communicate.......... :roll:

We are apparently talking about different concepts. Spiral Out is talking about a metaphysical and also physical {in a sense} void. Rr6 is talking about a metaphysical and physical {in the physicists sense} of a universe defined by his concepts.

I put this subject in the: "Epistemology and Metaphysics" section - my concept of nothingness is strictly
philosophical/metaphysical - There can be no accurate description of 'NOTHINGNESS" - since nothingness can never
exist :!:

Soi you ask why talk about it if it can never exist? - Maybe for the same reason I've had a life long fascination with Tao {Yin/Yang}, so thinking about existence having an opposing state is still interesting - So even though non-existence does not exist it still represents an interesting concept as the opposition to existence - If in fact there is an opposition to
existence :?:
"Ignorant people see life as either existence or non-existence, but wise men see it beyond both existence and non-existence to something that transcends them both; this is an observation of the Middle Way."
-Lucius Annaeus Seneca
. "It is only the consciousness of a nonexistence which allows us to realize for moments that we are living."
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Re: Why does Existence Exist?

Post by Sy Borg »

UniversalAlien wrote:So even though non-existence does not exist it still represents an interesting concept as the opposition to existence - If in fact there is an opposition to existence
It's instructive because it's almost true. Near-nothingness in a relative sense exists, just that absolute nothingness is not a meaningful concept in the reality we know. There are vast voids in the cosmos between the strands of the cosmic web where there is absolutely nothing that we want or need. In fact, voids cannot even provide us with time because, if gravity slows time, then then voids must speed time up.
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Re: Why does Existence Exist?

Post by UniversalAlien »

Greta wrote:
UniversalAlien wrote:So even though non-existence does not exist it still represents an interesting concept as the opposition to existence - If in fact there is an opposition to existence
It's instructive because it's almost true. Near-nothingness in a relative sense exists, just that absolute nothingness is not a meaningful concept in the reality we know. There are vast voids in the cosmos between the strands of the cosmic web where there is absolutely nothing that we want or need. In fact, voids cannot even provide us with time because, if gravity slows time, then then voids must speed time up.
At first that seems plausible - But then again.........

They used to think there was something called the Ether occupying apparently empty space - filling up the so called void.

I don't know if they even use the word Ether anymore but as has been shown by now detected 'gravity waves' and the fact that the universe is interconnected, and the position of the planets and their motion is dependent on forces of gravity which are present in the so-called void - One might deduce that no space in the universe is really empty - energy forces are occupying all of space and Relativity proves matter is a form of energy - all of existence is energy and energy, in different states, occupies all of the universe, all existence - Therefor The Void is not an independently existent state - It is part of the energy matrix of the universe. There is a definitive energy connection covering all of existence - Absolute non-existence and a true void does not exist.
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Re: Why does Existence Exist?

Post by Simplyhuman »

In an attempt to stay on the topic of existence, rather than nothingness... But it most likely won't be so romantic.

Existence exists because existence exists. It is as large or small as your consciousness wishes it to be. It came to be because nothingness offered too many possibilities for existence to stay dormant. Once anything at all is possible, then nothingness is gone. A thought, light, or a particle smaller than we can fathom would kill nothingness. Was there ever truly nothing? Only if you keep your mind set on time. But time is a thought, an idea used for human control. Time has no place in the universe. Therefore, existence exists simply because existence exists.
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Re: Why does Existence Exist?

Post by Rr6 »

Macro-infinite, non-occupied space exists beyond our finite,
occupied space

Universe. This is rational logical common sense conclusion based on observations. See 1b in my cosmic hierarchy.

It is also based on other ideas regarding integrity.

r6
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Re: Why does Existence Exist?

Post by UniversalAlien »

"I Am Existence - I Exist because without me nothing can exist - And nothing can not Exist"


-UniversalAlien









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Re: Why does Existence Exist?

Post by Sy Borg »

UniversalAlien wrote:
Greta wrote: (Nested quote removed.)

It's instructive because it's almost true. Near-nothingness in a relative sense exists, just that absolute nothingness is not a meaningful concept in the reality we know. There are vast voids in the cosmos between the strands of the cosmic web where there is absolutely nothing that we want or need. In fact, voids cannot even provide us with time because, if gravity slows time, then then voids must speed time up.
At first that seems plausible - But then again.........

They used to think there was something called the Ether occupying apparently empty space - filling up the so called void.

I don't know if they even use the word Ether anymore but as has been shown by now detected 'gravity waves' and the fact that the universe is interconnected, and the position of the planets and their motion is dependent on forces of gravity which are present in the so-called void - One might deduce that no space in the universe is really empty - energy forces are occupying all of space and Relativity proves matter is a form of energy - all of existence is energy and energy, in different states, occupies all of the universe, all existence - Therefor The Void is not an independently existent state - It is part of the energy matrix of the universe. There is a definitive energy connection covering all of existence - Absolute non-existence and a true void does not exist.
I'm with you at the start (and yes, "the cosmic ether" is well out of fashion), arguably replaced by flowing space-time or the "quantum soup". So yes, there seems to be "stuff" everywhere, be it gravity waves, radiation or whatever else is present that we don't understand.

The Void as you describe it sounds like entropy to me.

BTW, I accidentally edited out your slogans at the end of your post. Sorry. I clicked "edit" instead of "quote". I've made the mistake before, seemingly a slow learner!
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Re: Why does Existence Exist?

Post by Rr6 »

Rr6--Macro-infinite, non-occupied space exists beyond our finite, occupied space Universe
Macro-infinite, non-occupied space is indeed a concept/scenario, that I derived from our observations of a finite, occupied space Universe, and rational, logical common sense considerations. None of any rational, logical common sense statements that invalidate my givens, as stated.

These conclusions is also based on other ideas regarding integrity.

Infinite = no integrity
Finite = integrity

The latter corresponding to structural and systemic integrity.

See 1a 1c and 1b in my cosmic hierarchy for more wholistic comprehension as reference for all that exists.

And all that exists is 1a, 1b and 1c in my cosmic hierarchy. Relatively simple to grasp concepts for those who have open wide mind to intellectual concepts.

r6
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Re: Why does Existence Exist?

Post by UniversalAlien »

UniversalAlien wrote:
"I Am Existence - I Exist because without me nothing can exist - And nothing can not Exist"
Now, assuming you accept the concept that Existence is a prime state and must exist for there to be anything, including this discussion - I want to ask you this:

Does existence have to be a unified single state? Another words even if existence is required - can there be more than one state of existence :?: Is the reason that Relativity and Quantum Mechanics, though proved valid, and yet still contradict each other caused by the fact that there are more than one state of existence :?: Is this why Einstein spending his entire life attempting to find a 'Unified Field Theory' failed to do so :?: Are there in fact, as some physicists believe, parallel and multiple universes :?:





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Re: Why does Existence Exist?

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Fuller liked to refer to prime as that which is pre-time i.e. metaphyscial-1, mind/intellect/concept.

In that sense, he contends that there externally exists a pre-time state of existence as mind/intellect/concept, that we call the cosmic laws/principles.

r6
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Re: Why does Existence Exist?

Post by Fanman »

In terms of cause and effect on a Universal scale. I don't think that nothingness can exist or "be." There has to be something to cause something else. Since something exists, it was caused to exist by something else. Nothingness cannot be the cause of something, or a cause itself. Therefore, something has always existed and nothingness, by definition, cannot exist.
Theists believe, agnostics ponder and atheists analyse. A little bit of each should get us the right answer.
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Re: Why does Existence Exist?

Post by Rr6 »

Fanman wrote:In terms of cause and effect on a Universal scale. I don't think that nothingness can exist or "be." There has to be something to cause something else. Since something exists, it was caused to exist by something else. Nothingness cannot be the cause of something, or a cause itself. Therefore, something has always existed and nothingness, by definition, cannot exist.
Finite, occupied space Universe as something exists eternally, in what ever various forms of space-time it may take.

Macro-infinite, non-occupied space exists beyond our finite, occupied space Universe.

These two simple concepts are relatively simple to grasp, for those with open and wide mind. imho

See my cosmic hierarchy for more details. None have offered any rational, logical common sense comments that would invalidate them as stated.

r6
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Re: Why does Existence Exist?

Post by Simplyhuman »

Unoccupied space is a completely different matter than true nothingness. I would argue, since the unoccupied space is limited to at least one border of occupied space, there is not truly nothingness.

Every theory I have ever heard on the beginning of existence or the universe, begins with something. Be it a particle exploding or the actions of a deity. There was something. "True" nothingness never was. It is simply proved by the fact that we can identify that there is, in fact, something.
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Re: Why does Existence Exist?

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Simplyhuman--Unoccupied space is a completely different matter than true nothingness. I would argue, since the unoccupied space is limited to at least one border of occupied space, there is not truly nothingness.
Ha , very good Simply Human. I know what you mean tho and your the first person-- other me ---that Ive encountered, to envision that concept.

However, your not quite correct. For some years now, what Ive stated that aids to see what your saying is that, the macro-infinite, non-occupied space, that embraces our finite, occupied space Universe, is shaped by our finite, occupied space Universe.

We could say that our finite, occupied space Universe, shapes the macro-infinite, non-occupied space, from the inside, however, that is not correct because macro-infinite, non-occupied space does not have and outside ergo it cannot have and inside.

So we can only say that, the outer boundaries of our finite, occupied space Universe, shape the macro-infinite non-occupied space, at that boundary. You conjecture or scenario or philosophy is stating that within the macro-infinite non-oocupied space, there exists this finite, occupied space Universe, ergo the macro-infinite, non-occupied space is has or embraces this somethingness we call finite, occupied space Universe.

Here is the catch, if our finite, occupied space Universe, eternally exists, then my given scenario can never ever be any other way i.e. we have this eternally existent, macro-infinite, non-occupied space, eternally embracing the occupied space.

Within that context of what does exist, and perhaps eternally so, the only possible truth that exists is the scenario Ive given, and that is that the only existent, truly non-occupied space, is the macro-infinite, non-occupied space, that eternally embraces the finite occupied space.

In conceptual terms only can you we state that, the only true nothingness is infinite non-occupied space that does NOT embrace an occupied space. So your concept, which is metaphysical-1, mind/intellect/concept is a true nothingness in its own way, as metaphysical-1, mind/intellect/concepts are concepts of space, not actual space.

Again your concept is true, if there never exists an occupied space Universe. I dont believe that is the truth. Do you know anyone who really believes our finite, occupied space did not exist eternally?

Maybe those who think there exists some define being. Well does that thing occupy space/

Maybe those think the big bang came from truly non-occupied space?

1st law of thermodynamic--- is said to only be relevant to our observed occupied space ---and not any space-time that may have pre-existed the big bang. I think space-time is occupied space also. Space-time's property is gravity. I believe space-time has a 2nd property called dark energy. Cosmologist dont yet know what dark energy is, but it appears to be the opposite of gravity ergo I believe it is 2nd property of space-time.

Space-Time-Space is how envision what used to be just space-time.
Every theory I have ever heard on the beginning of existence or the universe, begins with something. Be it a particle exploding or the actions of a deity. There was something. "True" nothingness never was. It is simply proved by the fact that we can identify that there is, in fact, something.
SH, macro-infinite non-occupied space is trul nothing. That is true in of itself. So the way your presenting your statement is not quite correct approach. What your attempting to mean is that, there has never existed only a truly omni-directional, non-occupied space. That is what all of my above states in long round about way.

If you change your statement to be more like what suggest i the latter above, you will be closer to absolute truth. imho

Macro-infinite non-occupied space is truly nothing, truly void.

Metaphysical-1, mind/intellect/concept is truly void and truly void of space.

A truly, omni-directionally infinite, non-occupied space is only a absolutely true statement, if there ever exists in time, no finite, occupied space Universe.

r6
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