Any problem with Pansemiosis?

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Dan_1985
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Re: Any problem with Pansemiosis?

Post by Dan_1985 »

JamesOfSeattle wrote:The gist is that the fundamental unit of consciousness is the interpretation of a sign (sign being defined as in this thread).
Every time I look at something, I don't simultaneously perceive its causal predecessor. I don't see trees in supermarket fruit aisles. I am only conscious (aware) that the apple came from a tree when I reflect on it, but then this kind of conscious knowledge isn't the same as perception: Knowing that fruit comes from trees and actually seeing a piece come from a tree are different.

Conception Vs. Perception

As with your hieroglyphics example, the understanding of signs does not come from the mere perception of then: We need to either be taught or come across the connections ourselves by some means other than the sign itself.

We first need to be conscious before we even learn the causal link between the causes behind the sign.
Singularity and momentariness is not the nature of the world.
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JamesOfSeattle
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Re: Any problem with Pansemiosis?

Post by JamesOfSeattle »

Dan, you're essentially correct. I haven't even begun to explain how interpretation works. As I said before, that Apple is a sign of a bazillion different things. Which means there can be a bazillion different interpretations. How the sign gets interpreted depends on the interpreter.

I think I'll start that thread now.

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Quotidian
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Re: Any problem with Pansemiosis?

Post by Quotidian »

JamesOfSeattle wrote:My theory is very explicit about what consciousness is, and why some objects have it and some don't.
This thread doesn't present any such thing. It starts of by saying that 'everything is a sign' - on grounds which I don't think are at all sound - but ducks a really basic issue, which is that signs are interpreted by a mind. So how you get from that to an explanation of 'what consciousness is', is not at all obvious. And, you're equivocating the meaning of 'signs' and 'causes' so by a kind of sleight-of-hand, you claim that physical phenomena such as atomic particles and smoke can be 'interpreted as signs'.

So far, not so good.
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JamesOfSeattle
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Re: Any problem with Pansemiosis?

Post by JamesOfSeattle »

Quotidian wrote:This thread doesn't present any such thing.
So far, not so good.
You're right. Sorry. Someone asked where "this" was going. That's where it's going, but not in this thread. The next part's the hard part. Coming soon ...

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Quotidian
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Re: Any problem with Pansemiosis?

Post by Quotidian »

Sure thing, but do have a look at John Horgan's latest column about why the world's smartest physicist says that science can't crack consciousness.
'For there are many here among us who think that life is but a joke' ~ Dylan
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Sy Borg
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Re: Any problem with Pansemiosis?

Post by Sy Borg »

Quotidian wrote:
JamesOfSeattle wrote:My theory is very explicit about what consciousness is, and why some objects have it and some don't.
This thread doesn't present any such thing. It starts of by saying that 'everything is a sign' - on grounds which I don't think are at all sound - but ducks a really basic issue, which is that signs are interpreted by a mind. So how you get from that to an explanation of 'what consciousness is', is not at all obvious. And, you're equivocating the meaning of 'signs' and 'causes' so by a kind of sleight-of-hand, you claim that physical phenomena such as atomic particles and smoke can be 'interpreted as signs'.

So far, not so good.
I agree that the potential of all phenomena to act as signals to other entities in no way explains consciousness. I don't see errors in his initial observation - an interesting notion that is generally not pickup up on by most (hence his motivation for the OP, no doubt); the mistake was in extrapolating what all these potential signs mean.

Consider E. coli. Undigested food emanates minuscule fragments that the bacteria will detect and consume. Most (symbiotic) strains will not identify the cells slewed by the gut's lining slews as a cue for an extra food source. The strains that don't discriminate between the stomach's contents and the stomach lining itself are the ones that bring sickness.

The current common wisdom is that these interactions are entirely unconscious, so the production and response to potential signs need not tell us anything about consciousness as such. However, those attracted to the idea of panspychism might consider these responses to be examples of proto-consciousness.
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