Anything is possible

Discuss any topics related to metaphysics (the philosophical study of the principles of reality) or epistemology (the philosophical study of knowledge) in this forum.
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BelieveNothing
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Re: Anything is possible

Post by BelieveNothing » March 23rd, 2017, 8:23 pm

What I just hinted at is that among an infinite number of realities that we can never observe we happen to be and belong in the one and only one where anything is possible and it is true whether we can comprehend it or not. Things are true because they can be, the universe exists because it can do so. As a placeholder if something was impossible it would not be part of reality and can therefor be disregarded. I know saying 'something is true' because 'it can be' doesn't really prove anything but I seem to be running out of ideas... It's important to keep an open mind or risk never learning anything. When the one true reality that has 100% probability is surrounded by an infinite number of lower probability realities any reality that has a probability of zero is simply a placeholder and not really part of the picture. If anything was impossible it would be like background noise while the truth is that "anything is possible" and I'm struggling to find another way to explain this without simply stacking all my chips on the self contradictory summary that "even the impossible is possible". Just debunk my opinion with something impossible that you have witnessed or concluded if you can?
Trust me, seeing might be believing but the truth can be stranger than fiction.
Reality is not all in your mind.

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Re: Anything is possible

Post by Greta » March 23rd, 2017, 8:38 pm

BelieveNothing wrote:Things are true because they can be, the universe exists because it can do so.
This is also my impression - like an existential version of the survival of the fittest.

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Re: Anything is possible

Post by BelieveNothing » March 23rd, 2017, 9:16 pm

Rr6 wrote:
The exist five and only five possible regular/symmetrical polyhedra of Universe. This is a relatively simple absolute truth that anyone can try for themselves.

Since it is an absolute it is true every where and every when irrespective of any alledegd multiverse scenario.

Simple not complex yet so few appear to be able to grasp it, acknowledge and accept it.

It is easier for rich human to go through the eye of a needle than some intellectuals to drop their ego. imho

r6
Forgive me for reiterating r6, but how would knowing an absolute truth ever prove that alternative perceptions can't be equally true or more so?

What I suggest is that as soon as you accept anything as absolute truth you are doomed to learn nothing since everything you ever learn is contrary to previous ignorance.

I've read some of your disputation that things will ever be explained in a way that would make you believe them. In my eyes even if a truth is absolute it can still be shown to be incomplete. Absolute truth is just an unreachable ideal! I often wish things were simple enough to be obvious to everyone. Proving one thing is true does not negate any alternatives. No matter what you believe or know there are always alternatives, that seems to be what makes 'the concept of infinity' comprehensive.

If only one thing is possible it must be that anything and everything is possible. I can accept your observations and opinions if I can understand them, but surely you understand that nothing can be proven? I like to disagree with everything I understand as a pathetic effort to learn more. To be honest, mate, I don't fully understand the majority of your criticisms..

-- Updated March 24th, 2017, 3:13 am to add the following --

If you say it's impossible that "anything is possible" you are not proving anything because it is possible that it is impossible that "anything is possible" but it can not be proven. Isn't the goal of philosophy to find truth? You could say it's impossible that it is possible that it is impossible that "anything is possible" but i guess people can see where this is going...

It is what it is, there are no final answers there are only questions. There is always an alternative and I am starting to think that the more something contradicts itself the more likely it is to be an accurate representation.
Reality is not all in your mind.

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Re: Anything is possible

Post by Rr6 » March 24th, 2017, 8:08 am

BNothing--I personally don't believe in absolute truths but prefer to accept things as 'possible'.
r6--There exist five and only five possible regular/symmetrical polyhedra of Universe. This is a relatively simple absolute truth that anyone can try for themselves. Since it is an absolute it is true every where and every when irrespective of any alledegd multiverse scenario.
Simple not complex yet so few appear to be able to grasp it, acknowledge and accept it.

And just to add to that given absolute truth above, there exist no infinite set of possible realities. What is possible is limited/finite to a finite set of cosmic laws/principles. One of those mentioned above.
Forgive me for reiterating r6, but how would knowing an absolute truth ever prove that alternative perceptions can't be equally true or more so?
Ive stated nothing about there being no alternative perceptions. There is no perception any regular/symmetrical polyhedra. If you have perception of regular/symmetrical polyhedra beyond finite set of five, then please by all means mention them to us.

You have no such regular/symmetrical polyhedra beyond the five. Stating "alternative perceptions" exist in no ways inviolate's the finite absolute set of five and only five regular/symmetrical five. Simple not complex to grasp.
What I suggest is that as soon as you accept anything as absolute truth you are doomed to learn nothing since everything you ever learn is contrary to previous ignorance.
Huh? I'm not sure where you think there is some kind of rational, logical common sense in that statement. Can you please be specific and give us example of how my given absolute truth above, that I and many others can learn nothing. This is just irrational illogical nonsense. Where did I state anything "contrary"? Your not making sense and making incorrect statements.
I've read some of your disputation that things will ever be explained in a way that would make you believe them. In my eyes even if a truth is absolute it can still be shown to be incomplete.
Again, show us some specific of what it is you think your trying to explain. Yes other polyhedra beyond those five regular/symmetrical. So what. I and no one here is stating other kinds of polyhedra do not exist.
Absolute truth is just an unreachable ideal!
No it is not. This is just irrational, illogical and lacks common sense when youve been presented with simple absolute truth.
I often wish things were simple enough to be obvious to everyone. Proving one thing is true does not negate any alternatives. No matter what you believe or know there are always alternatives, that seems to be what makes 'the concept of infinity' comprehensive.
Huh? Again, I no one else has stated other polyhedra do not exist. You really have nothing specific that is valid to offer us. The five and regular/symmetrical polyhedral exist along with many others. So what? No one denying that.
If only one thing is possible it must be that anything and everything is possible.
You sound similar to the current president and cronies lack of rational, logical common sense while offering only generalized 'alternative facts'. Please try and offer us something specific.
I can accept your observations and opinions if I can understand them, but surely you understand that nothing can be proven?
Let me try this for the umpteenth time, there can only exist five regular/symmetrical polyhedra of Universe. Prove to your self with pen and paper, and straws, or toothpicks or just plain ole rational, logical common sense associated with abstract concepts. Also use the internet where much of this has already been shown, as stated. Only five.
I like to disagree with everything I understand as a pathetic effort to learn more. To be honest, mate, I don't fully understand the majority of your criticisms..
Huh? Your way off the eight ball here dude, I and others have learned many things beyond one absolute truth, For you to suggest that I or others are suggesting that people can not lead anything beyond and absolute truth is irrational, illogical absurdity on your part.

PLease start using some rational, logical common sense and not try and short change others for your inability to recognize and accept that absolute truths exist.
If you say it's impossible that "anything is possible" you are not proving anything because it is possible that it is impossible that "anything is possible" but it can not be proven. Isn't the goal of philosophy to find truth? You could say it's impossible that it is possible that it is impossible that "anything is possible" but i guess people can see where this is going...
Anything is possible that does not violate the finite set cosmic laws/principle ergo absolute truths.. It is not possible for there to exist more than five regular/symmetrical polyhedra. End of story, irrespective of how many times you or others want to say and believe anything is possible, when anything is not possible.
It is what it is, there are no final answers there are only questions. There is always an alternative and I am starting to think that the more something contradicts itself the more likely it is to be an accurate representation.
The can only exist five regular/symmetrical polyhedra of Universe. If you have and alternative set of polyhedra that are regular/symmetrical then please share then with us. You do not ergo your comments continue to be illogical, irrational and lacks common sense. Simple not complex to grasp. At least for those who truly seek truth.

You do not appear to be one of those. At least in regards the existence of absolute truths.

r6
"U"niverse > UniVerse > universe > I-verse < you-verse < we-verse < them-verse

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Re: Anything is possible

Post by BelieveNothing » March 24th, 2017, 12:53 pm

Rr6 wrote:me:
What I suggest is that as soon as you accept anything as absolute truth you are doomed to learn nothing since everything you ever learn is contrary to previous ignorance.
Huh? I'm not sure where you think there is some kind of rational, logical common sense in that statement. Can you please be specific and give us example of how my given absolute truth above, that I and many others can learn nothing. This is just irrational illogical nonsense. Where did I state anything "contrary"? Your not making sense and making incorrect statements.
The idea I'm trying to put forward is not straight forward because it has unlimited implications and applications. It's not even as straight forward as I once thought it was purely because it is easier to dismiss it as nonsense or misunderstand it completely than to accept it. The main problem is that it essentially contradicts itself, but I would like to try to explain in general terms - it's a challenge I probably can't overcome.

If any absolute truth is unquestionable or is not questioned then knowledge of it should be classed as a discovery because it is true whether you comprehend it or not.
That being the case, you should remember that everything you have ever learned could be classed as a discovery if you insist on it being classed as true.
What I meant when I said you will learn nothing is that all absolute truths are discoveries and how are you supposed to make new discoveries if you stop asking questions?
I hope this has made my previous comment a little clearer but I'm sorry to say a good explanation of this concept I'm trying to share with you would be beyond my scope if it had to cite a specific example where refusing to question something is folly. Let me try to summarize by stating something that seems obvious..

If you have discovered something then it is probably because you have been exploring and to explore something you have to be there, but once the exploration stops, I mean if and when you accept that the journey is over, the other places you could visit in any new exploration would also require that you be there and so you must abandon your first discovery before you can find anything else unless there is more to your first discovery than you thought you knew. I'm not sure if this analogy will help because it states within itself that i must not accept it as absolute and undeniable but I hope you get the picture.

And what I meant when I said that everything you ever learn is contrary to previous ignorance is that if you learn something you have discovered something by being in a different place than where you are ignorant of your surroundings or where there is nothing to be learned. Every discovery you make implies that something has changed whether it be your location, perception, knowledge base or state of mind. The only way you could ever continue to discover is if you continue to make changes so ultimately we must accept that nothing is ineffable but absolute truth. Like I said, it's an unreachable ideal. I'm not even going to start about higher dimensions in which things that are impossible in lower dimensions become possible - I'm not really referring specifically to geometry either. Geometry is just a useful tool and I get the impression you know that already but refuse to accept the limited scope.

-- Updated March 24th, 2017, 5:08 pm to add the following --

If you can accept that geometry is not much more than a useful tool you can understand that you should use the right tool for the job - intellect or intuition.
A fundamental truth in geometrical terms should not be applied to reality as a whole because however true your 'absolute truth' might be within it's own limits the fact still remains undiscovered whether or not an alternative can be better or more appropriate for what you are trying to accomplish.
Reality is not all in your mind.

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Re: Anything is possible

Post by Rr6 » March 29th, 2017, 10:15 am

BelieveNothing---The idea I'm trying to put forward is not straight forward because it has unlimited implications and applications.
BN, your idea is not clearly stated and it is limited because,

1} we live in finite, occupied space Universe,

2} that is complemented by a finite set of cosmic laws/principles, ergo,

3} what is possible is limited to these two above, and that contradicts the idea of those who state "anything is possible". Just not true.

What I meant when I said you will learn nothing is that all absolute truths are discoveries and how are you supposed to make new discoveries if you stop asking questions?
Who here suggested that you or any humans should stop asking questions? Humans have discovered some absolute truths that are finite in scope yet universally true, i.e. the 5 and only 5 regular/symmetrical polyhedra is absolute irrespective of multi-verse ideas.
If you can accept that geometry is not much more than a useful tool you can understand that you should use the right tool for the job - intellect or intuition.
Geometry is the science of pattern. All aspects of our occupied space Universe are complemented by geometric pattern.

Geometry is what makes some cars, planes and trains more areo-dynamic than others. In this sense, metaphysical-1, mind/intellect/concepts as geometric pattern--- triangle square, curve etc ----appear to affect the occupied space. Shape of space is not definitive enough. Shape of occupied space is more definitive.
A fundamental truth in geometrical terms should not be applied to reality as a whole because however true your 'absolute truth' might be within it's own limits the fact still remains undiscovered whether or not an alternative can be better or more appropriate for what you are trying to accomplish.
Ditto my last above--- areo-dynamic --- for applying geometry to reality.

Triangulation is key to structural stability. Just ask any carpenter who builds buildings.

Quarks stabilize in threes as hadrons{ protrons, neutrons }

Two quarks semi stabilize and mesons( strong nuclear force } for extremely short periods of time.

Leptons come in 6 positive{ 2x3 } and 6 negative{ 2x3 } sets of electrons and neutrinos.

The hydrogen atom has three aspects;

1} electron,

2} proton,

3} stabilizing line-of-relationship{ charge? } between those two.

No time now to go on with this cosmic list.
r6
"U"niverse > UniVerse > universe > I-verse < you-verse < we-verse < them-verse

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Re: Anything is possible

Post by Atreyu » March 29th, 2017, 5:32 pm

I might agree that "anything is possible" if you consider the Universe as a whole within the so called "multiverse" model. But in the Universe as we know and experience it (this "particular universe" in the multiverse view) nothing could be any different.

So pink unicorns existing is definitely possible in the multiverse model, because in some "parallel universe" things could have worked out that way. But in this particular "universe" such a thing is absolutely not possible, otherwise we'd have pink unicorns.

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Max Tegmark

Post by Rr6 » March 29th, 2017, 8:35 pm

Rr6--BN, your idea is not clearly stated and it is limited because,
1} we live in finite, occupied space Universe,
Universe/Uni-V-erse is inherent/intrinsically whole set of occupied space i.e. even multiverse scenarios a finite set [/color]of local universe's are all connected minimally by gravity ergo they are subset of
2} that is complemented by a finite set of cosmic laws/principles, ergo, Universe/Uni-V-erse.

In past, Ive read statements by Atreyu has posted saying, space does not exist. Believe that one and he will tell you other false statements just like it. Atreyu would have us believe that multiverse scenarios allow for "anything is possible".

Perhaps Atreyu had been reading Jacob Bekenstein statements that 'we appear to 2D creatures having an illusions of 3D' based on his black hole mathematics-- validated by Hawking ---- that led to holographic scenarios. I had first heard of Bekenstien via Lee Smolins books and via Scientic American article were his statement above 2D creatures is made.

I can find you sources that say the same as Ive stated since day one here at PF, that, no amount of philosophical hand-waving will violate absolutes truths ex the can exist only 5 regular/symmetrical polyhedra of Universe.

Here is someone else that agrees with what Ive stated. Max Tegmark at the link below. You not give him much credit/validity. Who do you trust/believe?

..." For example, any civilization interested in regular 3D polyhedra would discover that there are precisely 5 of them (the tetrahedron, cube, octahedron, dodecahedron and icosahedron). Whereas they’re free to invent whatever names they want for them, they’re *not* free to invent a 6th one – it simply doesn’t exist.

....The same applies to the mathematical structures that are popular in modern physics, from 3+1-dimensional pseudo-Riemannian manifolds to Hilbert spaces. Once we’ve classified all irreducible representations of the Poincare group, we’re not free to invent new ones!"....
http://www.math.columbia.edu/~woit/word ... 51&cpage=1

My response to its all an illusion, that Ive come across for last 20 years--- and even stated myself---is that, when I knock on my head with my knuckles I have sensations of sound and pain and others say they see a human knocking his skull with his knuckles.

I totally understand where some come away with its all illusion, and then I always come back to rapping myself on head with knuckles.

Even 2D area is still a space, so I just think Atreyu is just incorrect with his beliefs sometimes, in these type of cosmological regards.

Lets add these conditions to Atreyus statement regarding pink unicorns possible. How about biological pink unicorns, that give birth to Toyota Prius on mondays, For fusion on Tuesdays, Dodge Ram on Wed., Chevy Impala on Thursday, Mini-cooper on Fridays and weekends pops out 20 Sony tvs, 45 Toshiba laptops etc..........

r6
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Marsh8472
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Re: Anything is possible

Post by Marsh8472 » October 24th, 2017, 9:40 pm

I found some evidence against the law of non-contradiction. Last week I ordered a burger without onions and they gave it to me with onions. no onions = onions or "not x" = x

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