Anything is possible

Discuss any topics related to metaphysics (the philosophical study of the principles of reality) or epistemology (the philosophical study of knowledge) in this forum.
Marsh8472
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Re: Anything is possible

Post by Marsh8472 » September 16th, 2016, 5:18 am

Rr6 wrote:
r6--When you have rational, logical common sense reason-- and or evidence --to believe that,"anything is possible", please share. None have offered such, none ever will.

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Sorry I feel like I'm a million steps ahead of you and was trying to skip to the end.  Looking at "matter can not be created nor destroyed" as a scientific theory.  All scientific theories are falsifiable.  If it weren't possible to be falsifiable then it would not be part of science.  If the sun rises every day that does not prove that it is impossible for the sun to rise tomorrow.  Therefore it is possible the sun will not rise tomorrow.  Just like it is possible that matter can be created or destroyed because it's possible that a reason might exists that it does. I cannot prove it to be impossible, that makes it possible.
Ditto my above and actually address them as specifically stated. I don't see your comments being relevant. I do see them as being confused and contradictory, that goes no where of any significance.

You need to go back to my last post and actually address my comments specifically as given. You have nothing valid to offer in those regards or to support your believf that 'anything is possible'. Not.

r6
I did not say anything was possible. I said anything is possible if it is possible that the law of contradiction is wrong. If it is possible that the law of non-contradiction is wrong then it is possible that even contradictions are true like square circles. If it is possible for all false things to also be true things then all things are possible.

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Rr6
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Re: Anything is possible

Post by Rr6 » September 16th, 2016, 11:39 am

Marsh--I did not say anything was possible. I said anything is possible if it is possible that the law of contradiction is wrong.
What law of contradiction are you referring too? Do you have link to it?
If it is possible that the law of non-contradiction is wrong then it is possible that even contradictions are true like square circles.
Is there any rational, logical common significance to you illogical, irrational lack of common sense statement if this, that and other opposites are not truly opposites? Asking why a square cannot also be a circle makes no sense. Asking why frequency 2hz is not 4 hz is non-sense.

You obviously have no understanding of set mathematics. 2 is a set of oo. 3 is a set of ooo. ooo cannot eve be oo. You are on a pathway that only leads to insanity if taken to the extreme.
If it is possible for all false things to also be true things then all things are possible.
Anything is not possible, irrespective of how many times and how many places you want to keep injecting the word "if". If you have something that is rational, logical common sense-- regarding 'anything is possible' ---please share.

Anything, is not possible, is the simple answer. No pathways to insanity are need to grasp the simple.

r6
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Marsh8472
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Re: Anything is possible

Post by Marsh8472 » September 16th, 2016, 12:02 pm

Rr6 wrote:
Marsh--I did not say anything was possible. I said anything is possible if it is possible that the law of contradiction is wrong.
What law of contradiction are you referring too? Do you have link to it?
If it is possible that the law of non-contradiction is wrong then it is possible that even contradictions are true like square circles.
Is there any rational, logical common significance to you illogical, irrational lack of common sense statement if this, that and other opposites are not truly opposites? Asking why a square cannot also be a circle makes no sense. Asking why frequency 2hz is not 4 hz is non-sense.

You obviously have no understanding of set mathematics. 2 is a set of oo. 3 is a set of ooo. ooo cannot eve be oo. You are on a pathway that only leads to insanity if taken to the extreme.
If it is possible for all false things to also be true things then all things are possible.
Anything is not possible, irrespective of how many times and how many places you want to keep injecting the word "if". If you have something that is rational, logical common sense-- regarding 'anything is possible' ---please share.

Anything, is not possible, is the simple answer. No pathways to insanity are need to grasp the simple.

r6

google Law_of_thought, it won't let me put the link

We have the law of identity, law of excluded middle, and law of non-contradiction.

Based on your post I'm going to assume this is basically your way of saying we're assuming the law of non-contradiction being wrong is impossible. That assumption in itself would then be an example of something not being possible by assumption then. Therefore "anything is possible" is false since "non-contradiction being wrong" is a counter-example to that universal claim "anything is possible". But if it is possible that the law of non-contradiction is wrong then anything is possible because we just lost our mechanism for proving something is impossible in general in order to show "anything is possible" is false. Then maybe 1=3, 1=4, true=false, and reality does not work the way our minds can understand and everything is meaningless.

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Rr6
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Re: Anything is possible

Post by Rr6 » September 16th, 2016, 12:37 pm

"Marsh8472"--google Law_of_thought, it won't let me put the linkWe have the law of identity, law of excluded middle, and law of non-contradiction.
Yeah somethin about Aristotle and P this and P that. Meangingless drivel to me.

I doubt any consider these to be cosmic laws/principle or absolute truths. If they are, then they are not explained in simple way that I showed you how a set of ** is not equal to a set of ***.
Based on your post I'm going to assume this is basically your way of saying we're assuming the law of non-contradiction being wrong is impossible. That assumption in itself would then be an example of something not being possible by assumption then. Therefore "anything is possible" is false since "non-contradiction being wrong" is a counter-example to that universal claim "anything is possible". But if it is possible that the law of non-contradiction is wrong then anything is possible because we just lost our mechanism for proving something is impossible in general in order to show "anything is possible" is false. Then maybe 1=3, 1=4, true=false, and reality does not work the way our minds can understand and everything is meaningless.
Anything is not possible because we believe we know there exists a finite set of cosmic laws/principles.

Ex there exists only five regular/symmetrical polyhedra of Universe, irrespective of multiverse scenarios.

A square and circle share same same topology, not the same shape. A polygon can approach being a true/perfect circle but never be a
true/perfect circle.

1 triangle plus 1 triangle = 4 triangles via synergy of going from 2D to 3D, however, tho the triangles and angles have the synergetic effect the chords/edges of the triangles do not.

r6
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Marsh8472
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Re: Anything is possible

Post by Marsh8472 » September 16th, 2016, 1:58 pm

Rr6 wrote:
"Marsh8472"--google Law_of_thought, it won't let me put the linkWe have the law of identity, law of excluded middle, and law of non-contradiction.
Yeah somethin about Aristotle and P this and P that. Meangingless drivel to me.

I doubt any consider these to be cosmic laws/principle or absolute truths. If they are, then they are not explained in simple way that I showed you how a set of ** is not equal to a set of ***.
Based on your post I'm going to assume this is basically your way of saying we're assuming the law of non-contradiction being wrong is impossible. That assumption in itself would then be an example of something not being possible by assumption then. Therefore "anything is possible" is false since "non-contradiction being wrong" is a counter-example to that universal claim "anything is possible". But if it is possible that the law of non-contradiction is wrong then anything is possible because we just lost our mechanism for proving something is impossible in general in order to show "anything is possible" is false. Then maybe 1=3, 1=4, true=false, and reality does not work the way our minds can understand and everything is meaningless.
Anything is not possible because we believe we know there exists a finite set of cosmic laws/principles.

Ex there exists only five regular/symmetrical polyhedra of Universe, irrespective of multiverse scenarios.

A square and circle share same same topology, not the same shape. A polygon can approach being a true/perfect circle but never be a
true/perfect circle.

1 triangle plus 1 triangle = 4 triangles via synergy of going from 2D to 3D, however, tho the triangles and angles have the synergetic effect the chords/edges of the triangles do not.

r6
Yes law of non-contradiction works the same way you're trying to use it with sets too. Let "X" = ** and "not X" = everything else such as {*, ***, ****, *****, etc...}. Then ** = *** is false by law of non-contradiction. Without it we could not show ** = *** is false. Law of non-contradiction is an axiom. A square is not a circle because a square is different than a circle. Being different makes them not the same because the same is not the same as different. See the circularity there?

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Rr6
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Re: Anything is possible

Post by Rr6 » September 16th, 2016, 11:28 pm

Marsh8472 wrote:Yes law of non-contradiction works the same way you're trying to use it with sets too. Let "X" = ** and "not X" = everything else such as {*, ***, ****, *****, etc...}. Then ** = *** is false by law of non-contradiction. Without it we could not show ** = *** is false. Law of non-contradiction is an axiom. A square is not a circle because a square is different than a circle. Being different makes them not the same because the same is not the same as different. See the circularity there?
What I don't see is the significance of any your statements in your recent posts.

If this and if that and Aristotle P this and P that is suppose to be leading us to some scenario where'anything is possible'. Not?

You've never really addressed my concerns as stated to you a few posts back.

If you have something rational, logical common sense to say that validates 'anything is possible' please share. I don't think your or anyone else has any valid rationale in those regards.

Is anything possible? No. imho We live in finite, occupied space Universe that is complemented by a finite set of cosmic laws/principles. None have ever offered any rational, logical common sense that invalidates my given, nor will they ever do so. imho

The circularity is in people like your self who wnat invoke if this and if that and leads no where. Dead end or at best irrational, circular illogic.

r6

r6
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Burning ghost
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Re: Anything is possible

Post by Burning ghost » September 17th, 2016, 1:19 am

If you are talking about geometry then it is a fallacy to say "square circle". Geometry is mathematical logic not actual spacial reality.

I can say x=4, not 1=4. If you were to insist that 1=4 then you have stepped outside the bound of mathematical logic.

You can never sensibly experience a perfect circle or a perfect square because they are abstract. I can say something is more circular than square or vice versa.

If I say 1 then it is the same one I would have referred to twenty years ago and the same one I will refer to tomorrow maybe. To then say 1=4 is plain glibberish like saying "an up backward apple scroffing raspberry trinket a on is yellow bumbering lulop swammblers". If you think you can act out what I have said then you are making a meaning where there is just a stream of words and letters.
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Marsh8472
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Re: Anything is possible

Post by Marsh8472 » September 17th, 2016, 9:31 am

As is true of all axioms of logic, the law of non-contradiction is alleged to be neither verifiable nor falsifiable, on the grounds that any proof or disproof must use the law itself prior to reaching the conclusion. In other words, in order to verify or falsify the laws of logic one must resort to logic as a weapon, an act which would essentially be self-defeating
I have seen many definitions of possible. I'm using the definition that says anything that cannot be shown impossible is possible. Since the law of non-contradiction cannot be falsified and proven impossible it is then possible that the law of non-contradiction is wrong.

I'm assuming this with the usage of my definition of "possible":
Anything not accepted as fact is possible. But someone might say that they don't know if something is possible or not if they don't know some facts depending on how someone defines "possible".

This video gets into that
I actually e-mailed Tracy about this example and we had a discussion about whether her demonstration is valid depending on definitions of "possible". I would say in context of their demonstration that "I don't know if something is possible" is the same thing as "it's possible" in terms of the "as far as you know" kind of possible.
What I don't see is the significance of any your statements in your recent posts.

If this and if that and Aristotle P this and P that is suppose to be leading us to some scenario where'anything is possible'. Not?

You've never really addressed my concerns as stated to you a few posts back.

If you have something rational, logical common sense to say that validates 'anything is possible' please share. I don't think your or anyone else has any valid rationale in those regards.

Is anything possible? No. imho We live in finite, occupied space Universe that is complemented by a finite set of cosmic laws/principles. None have ever offered any rational, logical common sense that invalidates my given, nor will they ever do so. imho

The circularity is in people like your self who wnat invoke if this and if that and leads no where. Dead end or at best irrational, circular illogic
r6

r6
It's actually the other way around. You're employing certain axioms and constraints that make "anything is possible" false. The problem is by my definition of "impossible", it's possible for any axiom to be wrong because it cannot be proven that the "axiom is wrong" is impossible without referring back to the axiom and assuming it's true again. An axiom is assumed true by definition. The flaw in that reasoning is that assuming that something assumed to be true cannot be false is a fallacy of argument from ignorance and circular.
If you are talking about geometry then it is a fallacy to say "square circle". Geometry is mathematical logic not actual spacial reality.

I can say x=4, not 1=4. If you were to insist that 1=4 then you have stepped outside the bound of mathematical logic.

You can never sensibly experience a perfect circle or a perfect square because they are abstract. I can say something is more circular than square or vice versa.

If I say 1 then it is the same one I would have referred to twenty years ago and the same one I will refer to tomorrow maybe. To then say 1=4 is plain glibberish like saying "an up backward apple scroffing raspberry trinket a on is yellow bumbering lulop swammblers". If you think you can act out what I have said then you are making a meaning where there is just a stream of words and letters.
To be clear, I wouldn't be insisting that 1=4 either. What I would be saying is that it's possible for 1=4 without making certain assumptions like assumptions that mathematical logic is true.
The Law of Non-Contradiction states that it is not possible that something be both true and not true (at the same time and in the same context). In other words, if there are two contradictory statements regarding the same thing, one of them is false. For example if I was to say to you, “I would love to go to dinner with you next week”, and then take a breath and say “I would hate to go to dinner with you next week.”


The law of non-contradiction assumes that something is not possible right away, as I underlined in the definition, which automatically disproves "anything is possible". If we accept the law of non-contradiction as fact then "anything is possible" is a false statement. If we do not accept that the law of non-contradiction is a fact though, that leaves open for the possibility that "anything is possible". But by my definition of "possible" that I gave in the beginning of the post, if I cannot show that "anything is possible" is impossible then "anything is possible" is possible.

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Rr6
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Re: Anything is possible

Post by Rr6 » September 17th, 2016, 10:39 am

Marsh8472--- You're employing certain axioms and constraints that make "anything is possible" false.


I'm stating what humans have observed { substantitating evidence | and deduced from their observations ivia rational, logical common sense processes.

You have offered no rational, logical common sense, and certainly no evidence to substantiate that, 'anything is possible'.

People who go around stating such non-sense are just throwing a monkey wrench into OS to watch if fail, or their just ignorant. imho
The problem is by my definition of "impossible", it's possible for any axiom to be wrong because it cannot be proven that the "axiom is wrong" is impossible without referring back to the axiom and assuming it's true again. An axiom is assumed true by definition. The flaw in that reasoning is that assuming that something assumed to be true cannot be false is a fallacy of argument from ignorance and circular.
Here is the flaw in your thinking, I state that, there exist only five, regular, symmetrical polyhedra of Universe, irrespective of multi-verse scenarios, and offer not rational, logical common sense and certainly no evidence, that other regular/symmetrical polyhedra are possible.

You only offer a lot of meaningless "if" and P this and P that.
To be clear, I wouldn't be insisting that 1=4 either. What I would be saying is that it's possible for 1=4 without making certain assumptions like assumptions that mathematical logic is true.
** does not equal *** or oo ≠ ooo

Your logic is if ** = *** then all bets are off and anything is possible. This is dead end or No Outlet i.e. irrational, illogical pathway that leads you nor anyone else anywhere of any significance. imhl

The law of non-contradiction assumes that something is not possible right away, as I underlined in the definition, which automatically disproves "anything is possible".
Yes we assume it to be true based on observations and our rational, logical common sense deductions thereof. You have nothing of any significance to invalidate those assumptions, based on observations.

Infinite occupied space and anything is possible statements are inherently irrational and illogical and lack any substantiating evidence for there validity.
If we accept the law of non-contradiction as fact then "anything is possible" is a false statement.
You think? :roll:
If we do not accept that the law of non-contradiction is a fact though, that leaves open for the possibility that "anything is possible".
** does not equal ***. If there is a contradiciton in the former I don't see it. If you Marsh, see a contradiction, then please try and clearly and simple explain yourself.

But by my definition of "possible" that I gave in the beginning of the post, if I cannot show that "anything is possible" is impossible then "anything is possible" is possible.
....."anything is possible" is possible"... is in error on your part, and several posts later you have offered no shred of evidence to substantiate this statements validity.

r6
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Marsh8472
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Re: Anything is possible

Post by Marsh8472 » September 17th, 2016, 1:13 pm

I'm stating what humans have observed { substantitating evidence | and deduced from their observations ivia rational, logical common sense processes.

You have offered no rational, logical common sense, and certainly no evidence to substantiate that, 'anything is possible'.

People who go around stating such non-sense are just throwing a monkey wrench into OS to watch if fail, or their just ignorant. imho
What's considered common sense is not always what is true. I would could we could be wrong about anything no matter how much evidence and certainty there is behind that claim.
Here is the flaw in your thinking, I state that, there exist only five, regular, symmetrical polyhedra of Universe, irrespective of multi-verse scenarios, and offer not rational, logical common sense and certainly no evidence, that other regular/symmetrical polyhedra are possible.

You only offer a lot of meaningless "if" and P this and P that.
It's not meaningless, it's how logic works. This might help:
Falsifiability or refutability of a statement, hypothesis, or theory is the inherent possibility that it can be proved false. A statement is called falsifiable if it is possible to conceive of an observation or an argument which negates the statement in question. In this sense, falsify is synonymous with nullify, meaning to invalidate or "show to be false".

For example, by the problem of induction, no number of confirming observations can verify a universal generalization, such as All swans are white, since it is logically possible to falsify it by observing a single black swan. Thus, the term falsifiability is sometimes synonymous to testability. Some statements, such as It will be raining here in one million years, are falsifiable in principle, but not in practice.
Like in their example, someone claims "All swans are white", we could show this statement is false by providing one example of a swan that is black.

Similarly if someone claims "All things are possible", we could show this statement is false by providing one example of a thing that is not possible. Then "All things are possible" is false agreed?
** does not equal *** or oo ≠ ooo
Using your example let's say "oo = ooo" is that example of a thing that is impossible. It is impossible because "oo ≠ ooo" is true and the negation of "oo ≠ ooo" is "oo = ooo" which is then false and impossible for that reason.
Your logic is if ** = *** then all bets are off and anything is possible.
I think so, yes. If ** = *** then "anything is possible".

We would know "anything is possible" if something cannot be P and not P at the same time. Like a black swan cannot be a white swan at the same time. But this claim cannot be verified or falsified. Any attempt to verify it would be just referring back to it and using the same claim as the verification mechanism.
This is dead end or No Outlet i.e. irrational, illogical pathway that leads you nor anyone else anywhere of any significance. imhl
The conclusion is not follow rational or logic, that's the point too. It's a conclusion that maybe logical thinking itself is wrong. If that's a conclusion that's possible then "anything is possible" is possible. Something does not have to make sense in the mind to be true. I don't consider something absolutely false just because I cannot comprehend it or see how it could be true. That implies that reality has to work the way my mind can understand it, which is bias. An unbias view is one that says something can be true regardless of my inability to understand how.
....."anything is possible" is possible"... is in error on your part, and several posts later you have offered no shred of evidence to substantiate this statements validity.
I don't need a shred of evidence to show that something is possible. It's like claiming someone has an invisible undetectable dragon. That would be an example of a claim that is possible even if no evidence is offered. That's what we're talking about, what is possible.

Burning ghost
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Re: Anything is possible

Post by Burning ghost » September 17th, 2016, 2:16 pm

Marsh -

Is this possible then? :

AjjJ3&%7;//£-8HDJ)?)%?€€~{_}_€•~~nnckkk

If 1= 1.1 except on tuesdays.

Are am I just stringing meaningless symbols together?
AKA badgerjelly

Marsh8472
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Re: Anything is possible

Post by Marsh8472 » September 17th, 2016, 3:13 pm

Burning ghost wrote:Marsh -

Is this possible then? :

AjjJ3&%7;//£-8HDJ)?)%?€€~{_}_€•~~nnckkk

If 1= 1.1 except on tuesdays.

Are am I just stringing meaningless symbols together?
Yes

Burning ghost
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Re: Anything is possible

Post by Burning ghost » September 18th, 2016, 1:34 am

Seriously? You say "yes" to an either or question?

If you say it is possible then you're talking more nonsense than the above rendering. If you say "yes" it is a string of meaningless symbols then I agree (although I can stretch some emotional relation to the objects of perception).

-- Updated September 18th, 2016, 1:36 am to add the following --

Point being if you don't understand then you cannot say it is or is not possible.

Language is language.
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Marsh8472
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Re: Anything is possible

Post by Marsh8472 » September 18th, 2016, 9:04 am

Burning ghost wrote:Point being if you don't understand then you cannot say it is or is not possible.

Language is language.
You can if that's how the definition of possible is used. As I said before there are a lot of definitions of possible. I'm using the one that says anything that cannot be shown to be impossible is possible.
AjjJ3&%7;//£-8HDJ)?)%?€€~{_}_€•~~nnckkk

If 1= 1.1 except on tuesdays.
I don't see how this is possible or impossible. I cannot make sense of it. I cannot show how this is impossible so it's possible.

I would also say the logically impossible is possible if logic is wrong. I cannot show that the law of non-contradiction is true or false without referring back to it. That means by definition it's possible, theoretically, that the the law of non-contradiction is false.

I would consider the law of non-contradiction something hard-wired into our thought process kind of like how logical operations are hard-wired into a computer. That doesn't make it true.

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Re: Anything is possible

Post by Burning ghost » September 18th, 2016, 10:00 am

But by your "reasoning" or "non-reasoning" it does make it true if you so choose to define "true" as being it.

It is all well and good to pull language to peices. The question then is what "bits" are we left with?
AKA badgerjelly

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