In the end, can the Universe be understood?

Discuss any topics related to metaphysics (the philosophical study of the principles of reality) or epistemology (the philosophical study of knowledge) in this forum.
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Keiran
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In the end, can the Universe be understood?

Post by Keiran »

Our Universe appears to be no more than an unreasonable gigantic dump of arbitrary data coupled with a set of arbitrary rules, and our existence appears to be no more than the inevitable child of a limitless amount of possibilities.

In the end, maybe our Universe is one of those titans of existence, that are just too big and complex to be understood by their simplest products (us). In such a case, any attempt we would make to understand or manipulate our universe at its most fundamental level would be futile and any being trying only to despair.

Do you think we are (in) one of those?
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Machapungo
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Re: In the end, can the Universe be understood?

Post by Machapungo »

Hello ,

No, I don't think it can with any degree of certainty, BUT we can try! At least, it's fun trying!!!

Rather than repeat myself here , please refer to my recent post in the """Why does Existence Exist?" thread of the "Epistemology and Metaphysics" forum. My post there follows a line of reasoning that may be of interest. Regards.
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Bohm2
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Re: In the end, can the Universe be understood?

Post by Bohm2 »

Like all other organisms we have cognitive limitations (we are not gods) so there will stuff we will never be able to understand/comprehend. In fact, philosophy deals with many such questions as many have argued:
The suspicion is that, in trying to do philosophy, we run up against the limits of our understanding in some deep way. Ignorance seems the natural condition of philosophical endeavour, contributing both to the charm and the frustration of the discipline (if that is the right word). Thus a tenacious tradition, cutting across the usual division between empiricists and rationalists, accepts (i) that there are nontrivial limits to our epistemic capacities and (ii) that these limits stem, at least in part, from the internal organisation of the knowing mind - its constitutive structure - as distinct from limits that result from our contingent position in the world. It is not merely that we are a tiny speck in a vast cosmos; that speck also has its own specific cognitive orientation, its own distinctive architecture. The human mind conforms to certain principles in forming concepts and beliefs and theories, originally given, and these constrain the range of knowledge to which we have access. We cannot get beyond the specific kinds of data and modes of inference that characterise our knowledge- acquiring systems - however paltry these may be.
The Problem of Philosophy
http://www.nyu.edu/gsas/dept/philo/cour ... sophy.html
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Rr6
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Re: In the end, can the Universe be understood?

Post by Rr6 »

First off, there is no time beginnning or ending, to our eternally existent, yet finite, occupied space Universe aka Uni-Verse.

Yes we can understand our eternally existent, yet finite, occupied space Universe.

Those who propose a macro-infinite, occupied space Universe, will never have rational, logical common sense explanation nor evidence to support their viewpoint. imho

Big Bang is speculation or theory or scenario based on our observations. No human knows exactly what existed or was happening 13.7 - 17.5 billion years ago or prior to that, much less eternity.

Occupied space cannot be created nor destroyed.

Physical/energy cannot be created nor destroyed.

Can we comprehend our eternally existent, finite, occupied space Universe?

r6
"U"niverse > UniVerse > universe > I-verse < you-verse < we-verse < them-verse
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A Human
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Re: In the end, can the Universe be understood?

Post by A Human »

Keiran wrote:Our Universe appears to be no more than an unreasonable gigantic dump of arbitrary data coupled with a set of arbitrary rules, and our existence appears to be no more than the inevitable child of a limitless amount of possibilities.

Who has stated that as truth?

(is this ok with moderation rules...i'm new and not understanding why free talk is time-delayed here in an open forum)
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A Human
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Re: In the end, can the Universe be understood?

Post by A Human »

Keiran wrote:Our Universe appears to be no more than an unreasonable gigantic dump of arbitrary data coupled with a set of arbitrary rules, and our existence appears to be no more than the inevitable child of a limitless amount of possibilities.
If you understood the Universe then it would change...it's recursive...a new Universe would come into being.

(why are understandings being delayed and moderated?)
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Rayliikanen
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Re: In the end, can the Universe be understood?

Post by Rayliikanen »

Yes it can be understood and explained but only abstractly, through the philosophy of metaphysics. Though Immanuel Kant did not think there could be any such thing as a science of metaphysics that could successfully explain the universe, its origin, etc., he left the door open with his challenge: The first antinomy, to which he asked his critical reader to devote his chief attention (in a footnote found in the Prolegomena to Any Future Metaphysics). I've formulated a solution to Kant, but won't explain it here. We are finite beings and cannot understand things except to some finite degree, but look at what science has already given to us. Big bang cosmology has already overturned Kant's assessment that the First Antinomy had no positive solution. We live in a finite universe with a definite beginning, 13.7 years ago, apparently from a singular state of zero spacetime with infinite density. The question left for philosophers is: From where did this infinite density arise?

While there are many skeptics, Reason always finds a way to overcome all the perplexities and grind its way toward a solution to the most difficult philosophical questions, and this is a philosophical question because the laws of physics cannot explain the singularity. It has its limits. What is left is the science of metaphysics that Immanuel Kant hinted at.
Sealight
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Re: In the end, can the Universe be understood?

Post by Sealight »

Keiran wrote:Our Universe appears to be no more than an unreasonable gigantic dump of arbitrary data coupled with a set of arbitrary rules, and our existence appears to be no more than the inevitable child of a limitless amount of possibilities.

In the end, maybe our Universe is one of those titans of existence, that are just too big and complex to be understood by their simplest products (us). In such a case, any attempt we would make to understand or manipulate our universe at its most fundamental level would be futile and any being trying only to despair.

Do you think we are (in) one of those?
It is not quite clear what you mean by "be understood".
The answer would be simple if we knew the answer on a related question "Is our universe finite?" If it is not finite, then there is no way to understand it in full.

-- Updated October 16th, 2016, 10:12 am to add the following --
Bohm2 wrote:Like all other organisms we have cognitive limitations (we are not gods) so there will stuff we will never be able to understand/comprehend.
Unless we classify things and place them and our knowledge of them in hierarchical structure where our undrstanding of a bigger object is based on our understanding of its parts and smaller objects. If such an heirarchy can be made finite (why not?) then even with finite brains we can observe and understand infinite objects.
It is like everyone can observe and understand what the interval [0,1] is although it is made of infinite amount of points (or its parts, defined in a special way).
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Rr6
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Re: In the end, can the Universe be understood?

Post by Rr6 »

There exists no "infinite density". There exists no infinite set of points between 0 and 1.

People can conceptualize any infinite set of this or that, however, that is purely metaphysical-1, mind/intellect/concept not an occupied space.

The only true infinity is macro-infinite non-occupied space, that embraces our finite, occupied space Universe.

This is rather simple, rational, logical, common sense conclusions, for those want to follow a rational, logical common sense pathway of thought. imho. To date, none have offered any rational, logical common sense that would invalidate any of my cosmic scenarios ergo Universe cannot only be understood, it can be comprehended and laid out in a clear and concise hierarchy.

Ive already put in place the initial set of existence in this cosmic hierarchy.

r6
Rr6 wrote:First off, there is no time beginning or ending, to our eternally existent, yet finite, occupied space Universe aka Uni-Verse.
Yes we can understand our eternally existent, yet finite, occupied space Universe.
Those who propose a macro-infinite, occupied space Universe, will never have rational, logical common sense explanation nor evidence to support their viewpoint. imho
Big Bang is speculation or theory or scenario based on our observations. No human knows exactly what existed or was happening 13.7 - 17.5 billion years ago or prior to that, much less eternity.
Occupied space cannot be created nor destroyed.
Physical/energy cannot be created nor destroyed.
Can we comprehend our eternally existent, finite, occupied space Universe?
r6
"U"niverse > UniVerse > universe > I-verse < you-verse < we-verse < them-verse
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