Foucault's "grids" -the collective blinders of every age

Discuss any topics related to metaphysics (the philosophical study of the principles of reality) or epistemology (the philosophical study of knowledge) in this forum.
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Zerubbabel
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Foucault's "grids" -the collective blinders of every age

Post by Zerubbabel »

The postulate that lies dormant ... truth exists in order to be known, yet the human mind, due to the effects of a number of inhibitions or obstacles, has not managed to see this truth. ... science, at the moment of it's birth, not only gets rid of a certain number of obstacles but also eliminates and masks a certain amount of existing knowledge and wisdoms. It's as if applying a new grid ... truth is not acquired through a kind of continuous and cumulative creation, but through a set of grids stacked on top of one another.
this is taken from a debate between Foucault and Chomsky. See video at bottom. Begin at 15:00

The following short video captures this idea in a practical sense.
Foucault’s lasting contribution is to the way we look at history. There are lots of things in the modern world that we’re constantly being told are fantastic ... Foucault encourages us to break away from our optimistic smugness about now...

Is Foucault right? Do we have collective blind-spots (obstacles which prevent us from seeing the truth) today? If so, what are they? What don't we see - or at least what don't we acknowledge?


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Sy Borg
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Re: Foucault's "grids" -the collective blinders of every age

Post by Sy Borg »

Thanks. An interesting and enjoyably informative OP.

Certainly there are blind spots. What Foucault appeared to be upset about is what I think of as the emergence of "humanity" from "humans". That is, our growing numbers have the result that human individuals are increasingly controlled, exploited and, ultimately, will be supplanted by human collectives. Hence the dehumanising standardisation in treatment of mental and physical illness.

We are objectified by the collective (ie. "The System") in exactly the same way as we have long objectified other species. The legal system, science, politics, collectivism, utilitarianism, reason, rationality and even AI (artificial intelligence) are expressions of the collective mind. As Foucoult has effectively observed, "two heads" may be "better than one" in some respects but the individual has qualities that the collective can learn from.

Now the fun part - speculation :) Large collectives are still relatively young, shallow and (I hope) still undeveloped and it is healthy for determined individuals and smaller collectives to challenge it, lest it become even more tyrannical. At this stage large societies are still testing the limits of power and they need to be reminded when they are being more destructive than constructive. Collectives can be bad managers of their individuals just as individuals can be bad managers of their cellular communities, eg. unhealthy lifestyle, mental problems.

All of this would seem to be a natural tension that will continue to turn human individuals into what are effectively the power sources for informational "cells", ie. highly connected homes and offices. We are the mitochondria of an emerging brain, currently relatively free swimming but becoming ever more confined due to location of resources and opportunities, congestion and hazards.

There is hope, however, Consider the treatment of mental illness. While there is weak tolerance of eccentricity and difference today (philosophy forum members will largely relate to this) there has been some progress since Foucoult's early life. Today, the common professional view in psychiatry is that a patient's difference is only a problem if the patients themselves deem the differences problematic, or if there is danger to life and property. Objectification in medicine would seem to be a function of the number of patients a doctor sees daily. Today's world has many more "strangers" than ever before; and the population of strangers in this world is growing rapidly.
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Burning ghost
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Re: Foucault's "grids" -the collective blinders of every age

Post by Burning ghost »

A modern example today, seen on these forums, is the attitude of "religous" and "non-religious".

Dark Matter complains about condenscending attitudes towards people. Rather than try to understand we are inclined to dismiss a lot of religious thought as "lacking" rather than simply as a different cultural attitude.

Mythos is very important in how we come to understand living.

In reference to Foucault, I am halfway through Madness and Civilization. Something really caught my attention early on in reading this. It was the imprisonment of humanity by itself. Meaning we no longer live in the world as it is, we live in the world as shaoed by us to suit our means. Buildings andn cities have moved far beyond practical purposes of being mere "shelter" from the elements or a secure place to sleep and rest. The way in which we live essentially shuts out the "natural world". Strangely we also often try to replicate "nature" and mimic in by how we adorn our humble abodes. I am not suggesting nativism merely pointing out that we have slowly blinded ourselves from our own domestication. Even when we may go on a trip into the wild, we have a set picture of what this should be like and we'll, for the most part, be unable to abandon our civilized constructions (they will always be within mental/physical reach).

If you ever go to a zoo and look upon the animals with pity. Imagine what those animals would think of your sorry state if they possessed your intellectual faculties. Our world is surrounded by walls and fences, both physical and mental. Our freedom as animals was abandoned for a freedom of a wholly different, and maybe more confined, sort.
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Zerubbabel
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Re: Foucault's "grids" -the collective blinders of every age

Post by Zerubbabel »

Greta I don't think Foucault is upset. I think he is excited about the possibilities presented by reinterpreting history as well as reinterpreting the current narrative.
We are objectified by the collective (ie. "The System") in exactly the same way as we have long objectified other species.
This sentence stands out for me because of "exactly." Mankind's objectification of other species is what we call farming. So your sentence says exactly the same thing Stephan Molyneux says as he tells The Story of Your Enslavement (link below)- there are human farmers farming human livestock. The difference is that Molyneux and much of the Right say the farmers are our governments while much of the Left point to the 1% of our economic elite as the farmers. And you, I think, say that we act as a single collective of livestock with no actual farmer objectifying the individual livestock. Perhaps we are fooled into believing in "farmers" or a class of enslaving elite, whether they be government or businessmen, because of our great wealth and power disparity. Is the truth you see by removing the current grid that we are like those schools of fish that all change direction simultaneously.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xbp6umQT58A
Fooloso4
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Re: Foucault's "grids" -the collective blinders of every age

Post by Fooloso4 »

Zerubbabel:

Is Foucault right? Do we have collective blind-spots (obstacles which prevent us from seeing the truth) today? If so, what are they? What don't we see - or at least what don't we acknowledge?

This reminds me of Heidegger’s revealing/concealing, or perhaps Nietzsche’s creation/destruction.


I do not know Foucault well enough to know if he thinks it is possible to uncover earlier grids or if we can only understand those grids in our own terms. If those grids could be uncovered then knowledge would be cumulative and truth would not be simply what we can see now but also what was once seen and can be seen again.
Zerubbabel
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Re: Foucault's "grids" -the collective blinders of every age

Post by Zerubbabel »

Burning Ghost, surely we do not live in a cage because look at how well it is gilded. Seriously, from a practical sense, or an economic sense, the moment we purchase a house the mortgage becomes our yoke and forces us into life-long wage servitude. I think Hannah Arendt's Sputnik piece (the prologue from The Human Condition) captures this aspect of our modern grid. (I paste it at bottom.)

Mythos is very important. Mythos informs Ethos. I think Foucault's "grid" is believing that it is not, that our current ethos is not reliant on mythos or narratives or noble lies. I think today there are many who believe that science and reason and atheism is the antidote to the grid, or the once-and-for-all red pill.

In 1957, an earth-born object made by man was launched into the universe, where for some weeks it circled the earth according to the same laws of gravitation that swing and keep in motion the celestial bodies—the sun, the moon, and the stars. To be sure, the man-made satellite was no moon or star, no heavenly body which could follow its circling path for a time span that to us mortals, bound by earthly time, lasts from eternity to eternity. Yet, for a time it managed to stay in the skies; it dwelt and moved in the proximity of the heavenly bodies as though it had been admitted tentatively to their sublime company.

This event, second in importance to no other, not even to the splitting of the atom, would have been greeted with unmitigated joy if it had not been for the uncomfortable military and political circumstances attending it. But, curiously enough, this joy was not triumphal; it was not pride or awe at the tremendousness of human power and mastery which rilled the hearts of men, who now, when they looked up from the earth toward the skies, could behold there a thing of their own making. The immediate reaction, expressed on the spur of the moment, was relief about the first "step toward escape from men's imprisonment to the earth." And this strange statement, far from being the accidental slip of some American reporter, unwittingly echoed the extraordinary line which, more than twenty years ago, had been carved on the funeral obelisk for one of Russia's great scientists: "Mankind will not remain bound to the earth forever."

Such feelings have been commonplace for some time. They show that men everywhere are by no means slow to catch up and adjust to scientific discoveries and technical developments, but that, on the contrary, they have outsped them by decades. Here, as in other respects, science has realized and affirmed what men anticipated in dreams that were neither wild nor idle. What is new is only that one of this country's most respectable newspapers finally brought to its front page what up to then had been buried in the highly non-respectable literature of science fiction (to which, unfortunately, nobody yet has paid the attention it deserves as a vehicle of mass sentiments and mass desires). The banality of the statement should not make us overlook how extraordinary in fact it was; for although Christians have spoken of the earth as a vale of tears and philosophers have looked upon their body as a prison of mind or soul, nobody in the history of mankind has ever conceived of the earth as a prison for men's bodies or shown such eagerness to go literally from here to the moon. Should the mancipation and secularization of the modern age, which began with a turning-away, not necessarily from God, but from a god who was the Father of men in heaven, end with an even more fateful repudiation of an Earth who was the Mother of all living creatures under the sky?

The earth is the very quintessence of the human condition, and earthly nature, for all we know, may be unique in the universe in providing human beings with a habitat in which they can move and breathe without effort and without artifice. The human artifice of the world separates human existence from all mere animal environment, but life itself is outside this artificial world, and through life man remains related to all other living organisms. For some time now, a great many scientific endeavors have been directed toward making life also "artificial," toward cutting the last tie through which even man belongs among the children of nature. It is the same desire to escape from imprisonment to the earth that is manifest in the attempt to create life in the test tube, in the desire to mix "frozen germ plasm from people of demonstrated ability under the microscope to produce superior human beings" and "to alter [their] size, shape and function"; and the wish to escape the human condition, I suspect, also underlies the hope to extend man's life-span far beyond the hundred-year limit.

This future man, whom the scientists tell us they will produce in no more than a hundred years, seems to be possessed by a rebellion against human existence as it has been given, a free gift from nowhere (secularly speaking), which he wishes to exchange, as it were, for something he has made himself. There is no reason to doubt our abilities to accomplish such an exchange, just as there is no reason to doubt our present ability to destroy all organic life on earth. The question is only whether we wish to use our new scientific and technical knowledge in this direction, and this question cannot be decided by scientific means; it is a political question of the first order and therefore can hardly be left to the decision of professional scientists or professional politicians.

-- Updated December 12th, 2016, 2:14 pm to add the following --
Fooloso4 wrote:If those grids could be uncovered then knowledge would be cumulative and truth would not be simply what we can see now but also what was once seen and can be seen again.
Absolutely, it is a worthy project of the philosopher historian. The modern narrative, entirely restrained by it's grid, would reject it as naively quaint nostalgia. BBC ran an extensive series on actually experiencing life as it "was once seen." Ruth Goodman has articulated this philosophical idea at various points in the series (which I can't find). I watched the entire series. It was interesting technically, but I found it enlightening philosophically. I think that the principles and ideals that mankind has developed through time must be preserved to empower us through the absolutely most challenging test of humanity: Modernity.

Watch it for no other reason than Ruth Goodman is, in the parlance of our time, Hot!
youtube.com/watch?v=iSpqpwJ__Ek&ind ... uStQ7gaDTW
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