Is it only lipstick on a pig?
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Is it only lipstick on a pig?
If you could picture what a leading Beverly Hills cosmetic surgeon might look like, it was this guy; really good looking, killer smile, and a calm confidence that communicated that he was at the top of his game. Not only was he incredibly knowledgeable, but he was funny, engaging, and paradoxically down-to-earth. I came to find out that most of his complex accident-related and/or deformation-related reconstructive cases were pro bono. This was a seriously good person.
Subsequent to his lecture, I began to consider that although few could challenge anything this surgeon was suggesting, and despite the fact that his manner/appearance/presentation was flawless, he could not and did not know what he was talking about [in any real sense]. Although his words were meticulously crafted into this beautifully poetic narritve, it was an illusion [of the highest order] just the same.
This is how confusing the human intellect can be, be it a brilliant physician, a genius CEO, or a highly polished politician, its just so much bs. And this is how easily people can be manipulated. Simply observe what the vast majority accept as the way it is, no matter the institution, time period, or venue.
The human mind appears to be fraught with issues that give rise to the delusions that manifests themselves in social orders that are [at best] severely lacking. My personal theory is that man has this insatiable desire to get something for nothing and will do everything to this end. Regardless, the only way out of the asylum is through the non-intellectual where we deposit our theories in the trash can outside of the exit and simply accept things as they are [no explanation necessary].
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Re: Is it only lipstick on a pig?
How did you reach this conclusion? What were your external sources of information? What false premises, what incorrect principles did you find in his reasoning?Synthesis wrote: Subsequent to his lecture, I began to consider that although few could challenge anything this surgeon was suggesting, and despite the fact that his manner/appearance/presentation was flawless, he could not and did not know what he was talking about [in any real sense]. Although his words were meticulously crafted into this beautifully poetic narritve, it was an illusion [of the highest order] just the same.
Obviously, if that's his profession, he must have given the subject some previous thought, some consideration; he must have had ideas. How were those ideas false?
In what kinds of transaction? Illustrate.My personal theory is that man has this insatiable desire to get something for nothing and will do everything to this end.
By that route, "things" can never change. We become passive recipients of fortune's and nature's blows, like inanimate objects.Regardless, the only way out of the asylum is through the non-intellectual where we deposit our theories in the trash can outside of the exit and simply accept things as they are [no explanation necessary].
No animal will go along with that plan. They will try to affect their circumstances.
Reasoning is one of the methods they use to gain the necessities of life and avoid pain and death.
I don't think they'll stop.
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Re: Is it only lipstick on a pig?
I am sure out of a one hour lecture, you can remember three facts/statements that Dr Beverly Hills mentioned, that you have found to be "bs". Please share them with us.Synthesis wrote:A dozen years ago or so, I attended what would turn out to be the most interesting lecture of my professional life. A top-notch reconstructive facial surgeon [who dedicated half of his time to cosmetic surgery] gave a talk on, "What is beauty?" Believing this was going to be a time-filler kind of presentation, the guy kept a room of 250 absolutely mesmerized for an hour.
If you could picture what a leading Beverly Hills cosmetic surgeon might look like, it was this guy; really good looking, killer smile, and a calm confidence that communicated that he was at the top of his game. Not only was he incredibly knowledgeable, but he was funny, engaging, and paradoxically down-to-earth. I came to find out that most of his complex accident-related and/or deformation-related reconstructive cases were pro bono. This was a seriously good person.
Subsequent to his lecture, I began to consider that although few could challenge anything this surgeon was suggesting, and despite the fact that his manner/appearance/presentation was flawless, he could not and did not know what he was talking about [in any real sense]. Although his words were meticulously crafted into this beautifully poetic narritve, it was an illusion [of the highest order] just the same.
This is how confusing the human intellect can be, be it a brilliant physician, a genius CEO, or a highly polished politician, its just so much bs. And this is how easily people can be manipulated. Simply observe what the vast majority accept as the way it is, no matter the institution, time period, or venue.
The human mind appears to be fraught with issues that give rise to the delusions that manifests themselves in social orders that are [at best] severely lacking. My personal theory is that man has this insatiable desire to get something for nothing and will do everything to this end. Regardless, the only way out of the asylum is through the non-intellectual where we deposit our theories in the trash can outside of the exit and simply accept things as they are [no explanation necessary].
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Re: Is it only lipstick on a pig?
Alias wrote:How did you reach this conclusion? What were your external sources of information? What false premises, what incorrect principles did you find in his reasoning?Synthesis wrote: Subsequent to his lecture, I began to consider that although few could challenge anything this surgeon was suggesting, and despite the fact that his manner/appearance/presentation was flawless, he could not and did not know what he was talking about [in any real sense]. Although his words were meticulously crafted into this beautifully poetic narrative, it was an illusion [of the highest order] just the same.
Obviously, if that's his profession, he must have given the subject some previous thought, some consideration; he must have had ideas. How were those ideas false?
Lot of questions. I reached this conclusion because this is how all things work. There are no false premises, only illusory/false thinking. Those ideas were false because we can not know.
In what kinds of transaction? Illustrate.My personal theory is that man has this insatiable desire to get something for nothing and will do everything to this end.
Millions of people have retirement accounts [401K's, IRA's, etc.] that are invested in various monetary instruments/equity/equity funds, etc.. People send company X their money and expect the same company to send them interest, dividends, and other profits made off of these "investments" for doing absolutely zero. This is something for nothing.
By that route, "things" can never change. We become passive recipients of fortune's and nature's blows, like inanimate objects.Regardless, the only way out of the asylum is through the non-intellectual where we deposit our theories in the trash can outside of the exit and simply accept things as they are [no explanation necessary].
No animal will go along with that plan. They will try to affect their circumstances.
Reasoning is one of the methods they use to gain the necessities of life and avoid pain and death.
I don't think they'll stop.
Just the opposite. We become free living beings, unattached to our delusions and available to pursue life as it actually is.
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Re: Is it only lipstick on a pig?
Not that I see any connection between that and your differing notions of beauty from those of an anonymous plastic surgeon you heard one time.
Or, for that matter why pigs ought not to wear lipstick, if it makes them happy. http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0000531/
But I suppose detaching yourself from delusion is good, too.
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Re: Is it only lipstick on a pig?
It was all false [no matter how glamorously it may have been presented], only because we are incapable of knowing truth.LuckyR wrote:I am sure out of a one hour lecture, you can remember three facts/statements that Dr Beverly Hills mentioned, that you have found to be "bs". Please share them with us.
-- Updated September 6th, 2017, 8:01 pm to add the following --
The point of the post was that no matter how incredible the packaging, the content always comes up short.Alias wrote:So, actually, people are not doing "everything" to get "something" for "nothing" (which would be an oxymoron anyway); they're merely following the dictates of the economic system under which they live. The same people are also working for their wages, paying their taxes and interest on their mortgages, putting a huge amount of effort into the raising of ungrateful children and doing volunteer work for their communities and favours for their friends.
Not that I see any connection between that and your differing notions of beauty from those of an anonymous plastic surgeon you heard one time.
Or, for that matter why pigs ought not to wear lipstick, if it makes them happy. http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0000531/
But I suppose detaching yourself from delusion is good, too.
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Re: Is it only lipstick on a pig?
Okay. You're disappointed. Meh.Synthesis wrote: The point of the post was that no matter how incredible the packaging, the content always comes up short.
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Re: Is it only lipstick on a pig?
You mis-understand.Alias wrote:Okay. You're disappointed. Meh.Synthesis wrote: The point of the post was that no matter how incredible the packaging, the content always comes up short.
What I am saying is that no matter how much we are impressed by what somebody else has to say, we must keep in mind that they are only able [at best] to spout-out the current take on matters, something that will be soon proven to be false. Therefore, why not acknowledge such up-front? Would this not lead to a much healthier intellectual climate?
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Re: Is it only lipstick on a pig?
In your dissertation, I have seen no support for this assumption. However, it may still be true.Synthesis wrote: What I am saying is that no matter how much we are impressed by what somebody else has to say, we must keep in mind that they are only able [at best] to spout-out the current take on matters, something that will be soon proven to be false.
What, like preface every opinion or thesis with "As far I know at this moment in time," or "Until refuted by new evidence," ?Therefore, why not acknowledge such up-front?
I thought that was taken for granted. But, okay.
Maybe. Or it could lead to utter stagnation, as everyone gives up on forming a conviction or building a factual data-base.Would this not lead to a much healthier intellectual climate?
Why bother?
You haven't said anything about beauty or why pigs shouldn't wear lipstick.
If your only intellectual contribution is: " Everything everybody knows is wrong," what's your stake in an intellectual climate?
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Re: Is it only lipstick on a pig?
Alias wrote:In your dissertation, I have seen no support for this assumption. However, it may still be true.Synthesis wrote: What I am saying is that no matter how much we are impressed by what somebody else has to say, we must keep in mind that they are only able [at best] to spout-out the current take on matters, something that will be soon proven to be false.
You mention ahead that this is taken for granted, no? While this may be case, this is not the way people behave. People (in general) are very attached to their thinking.
What, like preface every opinion or thesis with "As far I know at this moment in time," or "Until refuted by new evidence," ?Therefore, why not acknowledge such up-front?
I thought that was taken for granted. But, okay.
This is EXACTLY what should happen. It would prevent a great deal of pain in this world.
Maybe. Or it could lead to utter stagnation, as everyone gives up on forming a conviction or building a factual data-base.Would this not lead to a much healthier intellectual climate?
Why bother?
Dealing with something much closer to the truth can only lead to better outcomes.
You haven't said anything about beauty or why pigs shouldn't wear lipstick.
If your only intellectual contribution is: " Everything everybody knows is wrong," what's your stake in an intellectual climate?
I assume you are making an attempt at humor in the first sentence above, but the second is germane. My stake is in finding those who are not interested in being "right." These are the only conversations that interest me.
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Re: Is it only lipstick on a pig?
No. It's taken for granted that one realizes that an assertion may be proven false at some time in the future.Synthesis wrote:[that an assertion will be false]
You mention ahead that this is taken for granted, no?
You have proven nothing, either true or false, nor even made any attempt at refuting anyone else's assertion on any subject.
So? People make an effort to learn things; they figure they've earned their convictions, their knowledge and professional expertise.While this may be case, this is not the way people behave. People (in general) are very attached to their thinking.
Formally, every time someone opens their mouth or set fingers to a keyboard?Therefore, why not acknowledge such up-front?
How would that be any more significant than prefacing a statement with "I think" "I believe" or imo?
"Until such time as I'm proven wrong, I declare nuclear war on Country X." Yah, that'll work.This is EXACTLY what should happen. It would prevent a great deal of pain in this world.
How do you get any closer to the truth if nobody believes that truth is possible?[Why bother?]
Dealing with something much closer to the truth can only lead to better outcomes.
[You haven't said anything about beauty or why pigs shouldn't wear lipstick.
If your only intellectual contribution is: " Everything everybody knows is wrong," what's your stake in an intellectual climate?]
Why assume? I thought you've just been arguing against assuming things. I've asked you twice now, how the title of this thread figures in its content.I assume you are making an attempt at humor in the first sentence above,
Ah. Good luck.but the second is germane. My stake is in finding those who are not interested in being "right." These are the only conversations that interest me.
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Re: Is it only lipstick on a pig?
Alias wrote:No. It's taken for granted that one realizes that an assertion may be proven false at some time in the future.Synthesis wrote:[that an assertion will be false]
You mention ahead that this is taken for granted, no?
You have proven nothing, either true or false, nor even made any attempt at refuting anyone else's assertion on any subject.
Perhaps you can give me an example of an Absolute truth?
So? People make an effort to learn things; they figure they've earned their convictions, their knowledge and professional expertise.While this may be case, this is not the way people behave. People (in general) are very attached to their thinking.
It is attachment that causes all suffering. That's the difficulty.
Formally, every time someone opens their mouth or set fingers to a keyboard?Therefore, why not acknowledge such up-front?
How would that be any more significant than prefacing a statement with "I think" "I believe" or imo?
You should be able to speak with confidence [with the above implied]. And not confidence that you are right.
How do you get any closer to the truth if nobody believes that truth is possible?[Why bother?]
Dealing with something much closer to the truth can only lead to better outcomes.
Just because you can not do anything perfectly does not mean that you should not do it.
[You haven't said anything about beauty or why pigs shouldn't wear lipstick.
If your only intellectual contribution is: " Everything everybody knows is wrong," what's your stake in an intellectual climate?]
Why assume? I thought you've just been arguing against assuming things. I've asked you twice now, how the title of this thread figures in its content.I assume you are making an attempt at humor in the first sentence above,
"Putting lipstick on a pig" is another way of saying that you are attempting to make something bad look good. "What is beauty?," was the name of the lecture presented, nothing more. IOW, the lecture was about what constitutes beauty [to a cosmetic surgeon].
Ah. Good luck.but the second is germane. My stake is in finding those who are not interested in being "right." These are the only conversations that interest me.
Thank you.
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Re: Is it only lipstick on a pig?
Hhmmmm, not one measly quote? Now who is guilty of spewing bs?Synthesis wrote:It was all false [no matter how glamorously it may have been presented], only because we are incapable of knowing truth.LuckyR wrote:I am sure out of a one hour lecture, you can remember three facts/statements that Dr Beverly Hills mentioned, that you have found to be "bs". Please share them with us.
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Re: Is it only lipstick on a pig?
You mis-understand. What he was saying was perfectly acceptable according current thinking, but not actually true.LuckyR wrote:Hhmmmm, not one measly quote? Now who is guilty of spewing bs?Synthesis wrote: (Nested quote removed.)
It was all false [no matter how glamorously it may have been presented], only because we are incapable of knowing truth.
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Re: Is it only lipstick on a pig?
Most folks who declare that something is not true, do so because a different thing (than the original) is in fact true. However, reading between the lines I am starting to get the feeling that your opinion is that nothing is true. Is this correct?Synthesis wrote:You mis-understand. What he was saying was perfectly acceptable according current thinking, but not actually true.LuckyR wrote: (Nested quote removed.)
Hhmmmm, not one measly quote? Now who is guilty of spewing bs?
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