Democracy: Every Cook Can Govern

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Steve3007
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Re: Democracy: Every Cook Can Govern

Post by Steve3007 »

does government require specialization? Why or why not? I will not entertain responses that circumvent an answer to this.
Answer: Yes. Of course it does. If I am the president and I wish to use central government to work out how to provide people with food, housing and healthcare then I will consult specialists in these fields and appoint ministers for food, housing and healthcare. Their job will be to gain specialist knowledge of these fields, the problems and proposed solutions.

My general impression is that you're not really interested in actually thinking in concrete terms about how you propose to run a government. You seem to simply want to say "it's all an outrage! Things have to change! Let's have a revolution!".

To prove me wrong, let's take your earlier point (to Greta) about housing:
In the United States, there are 500,000 homeless people and 3,000,000 empty homes. There are more peopleless homes than homeless people. But because the West is prefaced on competition, housing is not seen as a human need, it is seen as an instrument to accumulate profit.
There's a similar situation in the country where I live. Lots of empty property. Lots of homeless people. What shall we do about it, if we're in a position of power?

Suggestion for example 1: Attempt to pass legislation in which private ownership of residential property is abolished. All private houses are confiscated by the government and then re-allocated on the basis of need. That need will be assessed by a government appointed committee.

Can you see any problems with my suggestion? Do you have your own suggestions?
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ZoneOfNonBeing
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Re: Democracy: Every Cook Can Govern

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Steve - lets put it this way. The government has had specialists and consultants charged with housing, food, etc since forever. And what are the results? As I pointed out when speaking with Greta: there are 500,000 homeless people and 3,000,000 empty homes. The solution is not algebraic. It is arithmetic. It is common sense. There are 6 empty houses for every homeless person, thanks to "specialists". There are people starving other people are able to eat themselves into obesity, thanks to "specialists". When it comes to government, the "specialists" lack common sense and basic humanity. The more degrees they have, the less decent they are as human beings.

-- Updated November 10th, 2017, 11:29 am to add the following --

The wretched conditions we see all around us is the handwork of "specialists." To adequately feed and clothe everyone on this planet, we need to detox our minds of "specialists" and start having the average person run the show. Your attitude about government is paternalistic: it assumes that the average person does not know what is good for themselves. They need someone with a fancy degree to act on their behalf and guide them. This view is problematic - and ultimately links to justifications for slavery and colonization (Europeans enslaved and colonized Africans, allegedly, to "civilize them").
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Steve3007
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Re: Democracy: Every Cook Can Govern

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I still don't see you telling me what you would do differently. It's just the usual "they're all a bunch of crooks" that I can hear from the guy propping up the bar at the local pub any night of the week.

You're president. People are homeless. What's your first act as president? What are YOU going to do about it?
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ZoneOfNonBeing
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Re: Democracy: Every Cook Can Govern

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Seize the means of production and centralize them into the hands of the people. I would make housing a human right.
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Steve3007
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Re: Democracy: Every Cook Can Govern

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OK. Good. We have a first policy. "Seize the means of production and centralize them into the hands of the people.".

How's that going to work? What's your first act? Order the military to do something? Pass a law? what?

-- Updated Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:46 pm to add the following --

What "means of production"? How is that going re-distribute all these empty houses to homeless people? Do you mean confiscate private residences, as I suggested? How? Enact legislation to nullify all property rights? Something like that?
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ZoneOfNonBeing
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Re: Democracy: Every Cook Can Govern

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We would need a mass movement of people who are armed, as the capitalists are not going to surrender without a fight. It would be ideal to infiltrate the military and have hold of some of those heavy duty weapons, so as to suppress rebellion.

There will be bloodshed. There is no avoiding it. There is already bloodshed. The only difference is: we need to start dying FOR something, as opposed to just being killed and not striking back.
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Steve3007
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Re: Democracy: Every Cook Can Govern

Post by Steve3007 »

So, why haven't you succeeded yet in gathering this mass movement of people to overthrow our capitalist oppressors? What's stopping us, do you think?

-- Updated Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:54 pm to add the following --

Once we have finally overthrown the capitalist system, will we live in a society where all people work for the good of the whole, where there are no drug problems, no crime, no greed and where everyone has a home?
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ZoneOfNonBeing
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Re: Democracy: Every Cook Can Govern

Post by ZoneOfNonBeing »

Good question. I think there have been glimmers of hope where the capitalist class was overthrown, but the next step of implementing a truly egalitarian society was derailed. I am thinking of the Soviet Union and China - whereby the balance of power shifted, only to have those on the front lines of liberation become the new oppressor class.

I think what is holding us back now is a lack of consciousness. As Harriet Tubman said: "I have freed thousands of slaves. I could have freed thousands more if they only knew they were slaves."

I also believe people are afraid. People are too heavily invested in the current system: they have jobs, houses, etc - that they do not want to jeopardize. We need to get to the point where we feel we have nothing to lose in order for a revolution to begin.
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Steve3007
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Re: Democracy: Every Cook Can Govern

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OK. It's been interesting. Good luck with the revolution. Power to the people.
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ZoneOfNonBeing
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Re: Democracy: Every Cook Can Govern

Post by ZoneOfNonBeing »

Thanks, power to the people!
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Steve3007
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Re: Democracy: Every Cook Can Govern

Post by Steve3007 »

Before I go: Just out of curiosity, and I'd appreciate it if you could answer this question honestly:

Do you actually believe the things you're saying here?
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ZoneOfNonBeing
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Re: Democracy: Every Cook Can Govern

Post by ZoneOfNonBeing »

As a matter of fact - no - I dont believe a word I am saying. I am currently in a psychiatric ward taking several medications. While I was high on the drugs they gave me, which are known to cause hallucinations related to communism, the doctor let me borrow his phone and I wrote this post. The nurses said they are going to put me in a padded room in a few hours, and I welcome that, because these thoughts are absolutely crazy.

Dont worry: I believe capitalism is great. You can safely dismiss the contents of this post as an aberration, and continue living your life without questioning any further.
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Chili
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Re: Democracy: Every Cook Can Govern

Post by Chili »

ZoneOfNonBeing wrote:Good question. I think there have been glimmers of hope where the capitalist class was overthrown, but the next step of implementing a truly egalitarian society was derailed. I am thinking of the Soviet Union and China - whereby the balance of power shifted, only to have those on the front lines of liberation become the new oppressor class.

I think what is holding us back now is a lack of consciousness. As Harriet Tubman said: "I have freed thousands of slaves. I could have freed thousands more if they only knew they were slaves."

I also believe people are afraid. People are too heavily invested in the current system: they have jobs, houses, etc - that they do not want to jeopardize. We need to get to the point where we feel we have nothing to lose in order for a revolution to begin.
Americans have a bad habit of not looking beyond the borders for good ideas. People in philosophy forums are often making the same mistake, especially if they are American.

Anyhoo, what country in the current world is doing things right or best?
Steve3007
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Joined: June 15th, 2011, 5:53 pm

Re: Democracy: Every Cook Can Govern

Post by Steve3007 »

Dont worry: I believe capitalism is great. You can safely dismiss the contents of this post as an aberration, and continue living your life without questioning any further.
I can dismiss the contents of that post? Does that include the part where you tell me I can dismiss the contents of the post?
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ZoneOfNonBeing
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Re: Democracy: Every Cook Can Govern

Post by ZoneOfNonBeing »

Chili - I believe the Scandinivian countries are doing things best, but not necessarily good.

And Steve - I am being put in a straitjacket so I may not be able to finish this sentenc ..
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