Fricker and epistemic injustice

Discuss any topics related to metaphysics (the philosophical study of the principles of reality) or epistemology (the philosophical study of knowledge) in this forum.
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philtd
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Fricker and epistemic injustice

Post by philtd »

Fricker argues that a hearer may commit epistemic injustice with respect to testimony, but whether the hearer is culpably or non-culpably at fault depends on their socio-historical context. With regards to 'To Kill a Mockingbird' and the 'The Talented Mr. Ripley' what do you think? Any objections to this?
Maxcady10001
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Re: Fricker and epistemic injustice

Post by Maxcady10001 »

I would consider the characters in To Kill a Mockingbird culpable because opposing opinions, like that of Atticus Finch, existed. For the Talented Mr. Ripley, I cannot remember if there was anything that he knew that others would not believe, so I don't know how well it applies. I remember him getting along quite well with the the other characters for a while, things went awry when he tried to get closer, but I don't remember him not being believed, in fact he was mostly credible because he was able to lie.
I would consider culpability to the extent that opposing viewpoints exist. Meaning the occurrence of an injustice can be due to cognitive dissonance. So I guess i'm not disagreeing at all with fricker, and it would be a form of presentism to look at past historical actions and assign blame without looking at the consensus of opinion at the time. However, it seems as though she has taken a simple subject and added a lot of fancy philosophy lingo, and I am not a fan of that.
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Re: Fricker and epistemic injustice

Post by Eduk »

Sorry. Can you give an example please?
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Re: Fricker and epistemic injustice

Post by Maxcady10001 »

I believe an epistemic injustice is when someone is punished for what they know, or what they assert to be the truth. That's why the op gave To Kill A Mockingbird as an example, because Robinson (I believe his name was) was punished for what he knew happened between him and the white woman (I don't remember her name). Because of the racial prejudice, the other characters committed an epistemic injustice by punishing Robinson for what he knew happened, and the op is asking whether or not the other characters are to be held responsible considering the time. I said yes, because opposing viewpoints were present throughout the story, and at that time period, so there was not a consensus on the racial prejudice at the time.
Eduk
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Re: Fricker and epistemic injustice

Post by Eduk »

Apologies I don't quite get it.
Let us imagine that I know there is a bear trap in my garden. And I then allow you to walk through my garden. But I don't warn you about the bear trap.
Is that an example? Obviously you would wish me sentenced in this scenario?
Or are we talking about stuff that I should know. As in I should know that drinking effects driving performance.
Or are we talking about stuff where I'm simply not sure.
As in the difference between ignorance and willful ignorance and just not having reasonable information to make a reasonable decision in the first place.
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Re: Fricker and epistemic injustice

Post by Maxcady10001 »

I think the injustice has to be inflicted on the person who knows, like it was on Robinson. So imagine the typical criminal scenario in movies, where a person knows about an incident where a crime took place and is in fear for their life.
Now imagine that person has a criminal record as well, and no police officer will believe them because of their criminal record and they are eventually murdered by the criminals that committed the earlier crime witnessed. The police gave no credibility to their statement, this is called testimonial epistemic injustice by Fricker.

Similar to Robinson who was punished because he knew of the actual events that took place. You recently referenced To Kill a Mockingbird in an earlier post.

I think she really does use a lot of complex language to explain something simple. It can simply be expressed as people don't believe criminals because they're criminals.
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Re: Fricker and epistemic injustice

Post by Maxcady10001 »

Similar to Robinson, because no credit would be given to a Black man because of racial prejudice. I meant to say you mentioned this in the thread on Virtues, it's funny that it comes up here.
Eduk
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Re: Fricker and epistemic injustice

Post by Eduk »

Yes I've read To Kill a Mockingbird but don't remember everything properly :)

As you describe it then it is pretty much trivially true, and I'm sure there are lots of examples (not necessarily as extreme).

Thinking about it this kind of thing happens all day long every day. For example in my job I don't point out all obviously true things (to me) because they aren't obviously true (to others). Who is actually right is very very secondary (if it could even be judged). That doesn't just apply to my job of course, I don't point out my wife's bad cooking either :) Not that she is a bad cook, but no one is perfect.
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Maxcady10001
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Re: Fricker and epistemic injustice

Post by Maxcady10001 »

I guess I can't really blame her, as all philosophical literature is written this way. I have yet to encounter a philosopher that is not trying to show how clever they are with every sentence.
Eduk
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Re: Fricker and epistemic injustice

Post by Eduk »

I like Dan Dennett, he uses English normatively.
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Maxcady10001
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Re: Fricker and epistemic injustice

Post by Maxcady10001 »

I haven't read his work, but i've heard him speak, and while I can't say he uses complicated language, his point is usually lost on me. I don't believe i'm alone in this, i've heard similar complaints in regard to his kind of compatibilism. Although don't ask me to try to explain his position there, I cannot.
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Albert Tatlock
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Re: Fricker and epistemic injustice

Post by Albert Tatlock »

philtd wrote: December 11th, 2017, 6:53 pm Fricker argues that a hearer may commit epistemic injustice with respect to testimony,
I don't have time for argumentative people, I tend to just avoid them.
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erk
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Re: Fricker and epistemic injustice

Post by erk »

Fricker describes epistemic injustice as being when we attribute a credibility deficit to someone because of prejudice, for example not believing someone because they're Black. In To Kill A Mockingbird, this is exactly what happens to Robinson. You could argue that in the socio-historic context of To Kill A Mockingbird where discrimination against blacks was normal, the people who did discriminate against him were less to blame than they would have been had those events occurred in modern times, as they were just acting in accordance with the norm.

Our prejudices are formed automatically as a result of our socio-historical context. At the time when To Kill A Mockingbird was set, it would have taken a lot of open-mindedness to be free of this prejudice. A few people managed it, e.g. Atticus Finch. But as our brains automatically acquire prejudices as a way of making information processing more efficient, you could say people aren't necessarily really to blame for having them. People who grew up in that context took it as much of a fact that Blacks are inferior and criminally inclined as we take it as a fact that monkeys are inferior (in intelligence at least) to us. So I would say that although the prejudice against Blacks had horrible consequences, the people (especially those who were uneducated and not taught to question) were maybe not to blame for their prejudices. They were, however, to blame for their cruelty.
Eduk
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Re: Fricker and epistemic injustice

Post by Eduk »

Well I agree they are less responsible and less unreasonable. But ultimately you have to be the individual most responsible for your actions and unreasonable beliefs are unreasonable.
For me it is neither the case that they are absolutely free rational conscious competent agents or absolutely none of those things.
The degree of culpability is difficult to work out.
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erk
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Re: Fricker and epistemic injustice

Post by erk »

I agree. Maybe the degree of culpability for testimonial injustice depends on the degree of responsibility a person has for their prejudices. The human mind has a lot of cognitive biases which make it very susceptible to prejudice and stereotyping, and some people are far more disposed to form prejudices than others. What would constitute a high degree of responsibility for your prejudice? Maybe education which gave you the tools to know that you might be thinking wrongly. And I think especially the presence of well-reasoned arguments against your prejudice would raise your responsibility - if you were to ignore them and continue thinking how you did, you would definitely be culpable. I can't remember, but I think Atticus did provide such an argument? If so, everyone who heard him but refused to consider it properly WAS culpable for their injustice.
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