How do you define God and Self?

Discuss any topics related to metaphysics (the philosophical study of the principles of reality) or epistemology (the philosophical study of knowledge) in this forum.
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Atreyu
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Re: How do you define God and Self?

Post by Atreyu » March 19th, 2018, 7:46 pm

jerlands wrote:
March 19th, 2018, 7:39 pm
Biology is the study of life. The word literally means bios (life) logy (to speak)
Biology is the study of life as we define it.

It's not the "study of life" if we define "life" in more broad and encompassing terms...

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jerlands
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Re: How do you define God and Self?

Post by jerlands » March 19th, 2018, 7:51 pm

Atreyu wrote:
March 19th, 2018, 7:46 pm
jerlands wrote:
March 19th, 2018, 7:39 pm
Biology is the study of life. The word literally means bios (life) logy (to speak)
Biology is the study of life as we define it.

It's not the "study of life" if we define "life" in more broad and encompassing terms...
I can understand that (I think.) What is independent (self-sustaining) in the universe?
"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." - Mark Twain

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Greta
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Re: How do you define God and Self?

Post by Greta » March 19th, 2018, 7:53 pm

jerlands wrote:
March 19th, 2018, 7:39 pm
Greta wrote:
March 19th, 2018, 7:26 pm
Emergence is not "nonsensical", just that it can seem so if the processes behind transformations are not known. Still, I agree with the general panvitalist sentiment. The problem to some extent is linguistic - that "biology" and "life" are treated as synonymous, but biology is only one kind of self-sustaining system.
Biology is the study of life. The word literally means bios (life) logy (to speak)
That's the point - we are arguing that biology is only the study of a special domain of life. The broader domain would include non-biological living systems that also are born, develop, decline and disintegrate such as stars, planets, galaxies, corporations, viruses, prions, crystals and so forth.

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jerlands
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Re: How do you define God and Self?

Post by jerlands » March 19th, 2018, 8:05 pm

Greta wrote:
March 19th, 2018, 7:53 pm
jerlands wrote:
March 19th, 2018, 7:39 pm
Biology is the study of life. The word literally means bios (life) logy (to speak)
That's the point - we are arguing that biology is only the study of a special domain of life. The broader domain would include non-biological living systems that also are born, develop, decline and disintegrate such as stars, planets, galaxies, corporations, viruses, prions, crystals and so forth.
Ok... I'm in with that :)
"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." - Mark Twain

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Atreyu
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Re: How do you define God and Self?

Post by Atreyu » March 27th, 2018, 9:37 pm

jerlands wrote:
March 19th, 2018, 7:51 pm
I can understand that (I think.) What is independent (self-sustaining) in the universe?
Ultimately, the only thing independent and self-sustaining is the Universe Itself, assuming it is alive and conscious. All other entities existing within it are ultimately dependent on either It or something else greater than themselves for their continued existence. In other words, all parts are dependent either on other parts, or on the Whole itself. But the Whole can be independent, since it is greater than all of its parts.

Another way of looking at it is that, if the Universe is a conscious entity, then it is Everything, is conscious of Everything (at the macro-level), and there is no other entity greater than It. Therefore, there is nothing else existing, no greater forms of life, since it is All, and therefore, it cannot be subordinate or dependent on anything else. There is nothing else...

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jerlands
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Re: How do you define God and Self?

Post by jerlands » March 28th, 2018, 12:17 am

Atreyu wrote:
March 27th, 2018, 9:37 pm
jerlands wrote:
March 19th, 2018, 7:51 pm
I can understand that (I think.) What is independent (self-sustaining) in the universe?
Ultimately, the only thing independent and self-sustaining is the Universe Itself, assuming it is alive and conscious. All other entities existing within it are ultimately dependent on either It or something else greater than themselves for their continued existence. In other words, all parts are dependent either on other parts, or on the Whole itself. But the Whole can be independent, since it is greater than all of its parts.

Another way of looking at it is that, if the Universe is a conscious entity, then it is Everything, is conscious of Everything (at the macro-level), and there is no other entity greater than It. Therefore, there is nothing else existing, no greater forms of life, since it is All, and therefore, it cannot be subordinate or dependent on anything else. There is nothing else...
That all seems logical enough except for the mind of man and the notion of free-will. Is the mind really important to survival? The answer appears obvious in that it does but why? Why can't man simply enjoy life and not be burdened with this search for truth?
"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." - Mark Twain

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