Exsistence and afterlife

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Greta
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Re: Exsistence and afterlife

Post by Greta » March 21st, 2018, 7:04 pm

Tamminen wrote:
March 21st, 2018, 5:30 pm
Greta wrote:
March 21st, 2018, 5:11 pm

Yet during deep sleep the sense of being is gone; the present is not perceived at all. Presumably, it's the same situation with death.
By the present I mean the present experience. Physical time is another thing. What is not experienced does not belong to subjective time.
I see, thanks. So you are looking at the subjective flow of consciousness and the "blanks" during physical time are of no consequence. So if my "awakening" somewhere in my early childhood is the continuation of a prior life ...?

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Re: Exsistence and afterlife

Post by Tamminen » March 22nd, 2018, 4:04 am

Greta wrote:
March 21st, 2018, 7:04 pm
So if my "awakening" somewhere in my early childhood is the continuation of a prior life ...?
Continuation of subjective time, because we cannot continue anybody's life. Only to be precise.

Mankind has always had a pre-ontological concept of etertnity. Psychological or evolution-based explanations do not make it insignificant. I think Heidegger was right: we have forgotten that we exist.

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Re: Exsistence and afterlife

Post by Greta » March 22nd, 2018, 7:15 pm

Tamminen wrote:
March 22nd, 2018, 4:04 am
Greta wrote:
March 21st, 2018, 7:04 pm
So if my "awakening" somewhere in my early childhood is the continuation of a prior life ...?
Continuation of subjective time, because we cannot continue anybody's life. Only to be precise.
I don't understand.

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Re: Exsistence and afterlife

Post by Tamminen » March 23rd, 2018, 5:09 am

Greta wrote:
March 22nd, 2018, 7:15 pm
Tamminen wrote:
March 22nd, 2018, 4:04 am

Continuation of subjective time, because we cannot continue anybody's life. Only to be precise.
I don't understand.
I mean I cannot continue my personal life, it will necessarily be another life, another person.

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Re: Exsistence and afterlife

Post by Greta » March 24th, 2018, 5:49 pm

Tamminen wrote:
March 23rd, 2018, 5:09 am
Greta wrote:
March 22nd, 2018, 7:15 pm

I don't understand.
I mean I cannot continue my personal life, it will necessarily be another life, another person.
What is the "I" that is another person. Why can't the other person simply be another rather than an extension of someone else's "I"?

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Re: Exsistence and afterlife

Post by Tamminen » March 25th, 2018, 3:46 am

Greta wrote:
March 24th, 2018, 5:49 pm
What is the "I" that is another person. Why can't the other person simply be another rather than an extension of someone else's "I"?
If there is no link between my being and another's being, there is nothing after my death. Not for me. Which says the same as nothing in general. Because in that case there is no me, which is an essential part of the fundamental subject-object relation. And this is paradoxical, as I have "proved" elsewhere. But if someone sees that there is no paradox or that the paradox can be solved in another way, that is fine, and I would be happy to hear other opinions about what death really is. I mean opinions that are not as superficial as they mostly are.

It is the present, the "here and now" that is in question and that is on the border of being and non-being. Without the present there is nothing, and this concerns being in general, not "only" my personal being.

The link that connects my being to being in general in the mode of others' being is subjective time as such, abstracted from its content: that after this "now" ther will be a next "now", whatever that "now" may be like. This is my version of the concept of eternity that we have always had in our minds in various forms, sometimes vaguely, sometimes more clearly.

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Re: Exsistence and afterlife

Post by Greta » March 25th, 2018, 5:02 pm

Tamminen wrote:
March 25th, 2018, 3:46 am
Greta wrote:
March 24th, 2018, 5:49 pm
What is the "I" that is another person. Why can't the other person simply be another rather than an extension of someone else's "I"?
If there is no link between my being and another's being, there is nothing after my death. Not for me. Which says the same as nothing in general. Because in that case there is no me, which is an essential part of the fundamental subject-object relation. And this is paradoxical, as I have "proved" elsewhere. But if someone sees that there is no paradox or that the paradox can be solved in another way, that is fine, and I would be happy to hear other opinions about what death really is. I mean opinions that are not as superficial as they mostly are.

It is the present, the "here and now" that is in question and that is on the border of being and non-being. Without the present there is nothing, and this concerns being in general, not "only" my personal being.

The link that connects my being to being in general in the mode of others' being is subjective time as such, abstracted from its content: that after this "now" there will be a next "now", whatever that "now" may be like. This is my version of the concept of eternity that we have always had in our minds in various forms, sometimes vaguely, sometimes more clearly.
How would you reconcile these ostensibly contradictory statements?
... there is nothing after my death. Not for me, and
... after this "now" there will be a next "now", whatever that "now" may be like.

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Re: Exsistence and afterlife

Post by Tamminen » March 26th, 2018, 2:48 am

Greta wrote:
March 25th, 2018, 5:02 pm
How would you reconcile these ostensibly contradictory statements?

... there is nothing after my death. Not for me, and
... after this "now" there will be a next "now", whatever that "now" may be like.
You misquoted the first line. It says:
If there is no link between my being and another's being, there is nothing after my death. Not for me.

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Re: Exsistence and afterlife

Post by Greta » March 26th, 2018, 4:10 pm

Tamminen wrote:
March 26th, 2018, 2:48 am
Greta wrote:
March 25th, 2018, 5:02 pm
How would you reconcile these ostensibly contradictory statements?

... there is nothing after my death. Not for me, and
... after this "now" there will be a next "now", whatever that "now" may be like.
You misquoted the first line. It says:
If there is no link between my being and another's being, there is nothing after my death. Not for me.
It is not misquoted, just abridged, and the comments remain ostensibly contradictory.

So my question still stands. If there is nothing after death how can there be more "nows"?

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Re: Exsistence and afterlife

Post by Tamminen » March 27th, 2018, 3:01 am

Greta wrote:
March 26th, 2018, 4:10 pm
It is not misquoted, just abridged, and the comments remain ostensibly contradictory.

So my question still stands. If there is nothing after death how can there be more "nows"?
The sentence is logically p->q. If p is false, q can be true or false.

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Re: Exsistence and afterlife

Post by Tamminen » March 27th, 2018, 10:55 am

There seems to be some sort of confusion from your side here, but in plain language, there is a logical contradiction between these sentences:
There is nothing after my death.
and
After this "now" there will be a next "now", whatever that "now" may be like.
But there is no contradiction between these sentences:
If there is no link between my being and another's being, there is nothing after my death.
and
After this "now" there will be a next "now", whatever that "now" may be like.
And therefore, to your question
If there is nothing after death how can there be more "nows"?
the answer is, obviously: There cannot.

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Re: Exsistence and afterlife

Post by Greta » March 27th, 2018, 8:18 pm

Oh, I see, my mistake. Well, bugger, that was pretty dumb of me :lol:

Sorry Tamminem, I misconstrued your comments earlier.

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Re: Exsistence and afterlife

Post by Tamminen » March 28th, 2018, 4:30 am

Greta wrote:
March 27th, 2018, 8:18 pm
Oh, I see, my mistake. Well, bugger, that was pretty dumb of me :lol:

Sorry Tamminem, I misconstrued your comments earlier.
That's all right. Agreement on small things is better that no agreement :)

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