Kant
- Ephrium
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Kant
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/kant ... -idealism/
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/kant-spacetime/
They do not state whether it is rubbish or what
In contrast, other topics such as Causation in philosophy or Justified True Belief have more definite answers whether they are “right or wrong”
Now how shall I take Kant’s theory
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Re: Kant
You should dismiss anything that says that Kant is rubbish as rubbish. It should be realized what an enormous and difficult task it is to say what Kant’s viewpoint is, so difficult in fact, that you will not find general agreement. If you are to either accept or reject something Kant says you must first have a plausible explanation of what it is he is and is not saying. In my opinion, his most important contribution is in showing that perception is not passive, that how we see things is not determined simply by how they are but by how we are. Where I disagree with this is that I do not think there is a universal, unchanging structure of the mind.For instance even Stanford encyclopedia of Philosophy just state what Kant’s viewpoint is
They do not state whether it is rubbish or what
There are, of course, so many other topics he addresses that making a general judgment by which the whole of what he says is dismissed as wrong is wrong.
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Re: Kant
If you are studying to be a philosopher, you are going to have to learn how to think for yourself!
One cannot say whether anyone is/was ever "wholesale" right or wrong.
Much of Kant's opinions have been refuted.
'Ancient' thinkers did not have the advantage of modern science (QM) to guide their 'philosophical' ramblings.
Science, all sciences, are feeder branches on the tree of philosophy!
A philosopher is conversant with cutting edge science, and even beyond!
If you are studying Kant, I suggest that you learn how to think critically and learn science (QM) and evaluate his opinions for yourself.
Well, if you understand how 'causation/creation' is impossible, and "justified true belief" is nonsense, then you are 'right'! *__-In contrast, other topics such as Causation in philosophy or Justified True Belief have more definite answers whether they are “right or wrong”
Kant, like everyone else, has a multitude of hypotheses and opinions and thoughts, there is no 'unified whole' to accept or reject.Now how shall I take Kant’s theory
It sounds like you have nor studied/read/understood his ideas yet, that you ask this question.
I can refute some of his opinions, but that is because I can evaluate them for myself, and support my analysis/refutation with logic, science.... and my .45! *__-
- Burning ghost
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Re: Kant
Once you've read Critique of Pure Reason cover to cover, and tried your damn hardest to absorb it, then you should look to the thoughts of others. Often you'll find people have many opinions about Kant when they are doing no more than recycling the ideas of others who've read Kant rather than actually reading it themselves.
It's the most worn book on my shelf. It is neither easy nor enjoyable to read. IMO it is a must read if you're serious about improving your reading ability if nothing else.
If you take it on in a respectful manner you'll be referring to it for years to come I assure you. As a piece of analytic philosophy many regard it as the best. It is amazing to think that he could hold such things together in his head.
- Ephrium
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Re: Kant
The Critique itself more than halfway through
And very specifically the first half Most of it is about Space and time And how the things that are seen are first through us.
He gives a number of so called proofs which I do not know how to evaluate them. For instance, he claims The reason we can anticipate appearances is because these appearances are in us, something which I find fishy. Why could not the reason We can anticipate be because we are intelligent and the objects are outside us?
Of course there is his theses that space and time is only a human’s Ground of representation of the outside and inner world where these are nothing outside of us. Now what does physics tells us?
Which is the reason why I am here, to find if there is any consensus on his theories
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Re: Kant
The appearance or representation in us are not the objects outside us. We can only know these objects in the way we represent them to ourself, that is, as ideas.For instance, he claims The reason we can anticipate appearances is because these appearances are in us, something which I find fishy. Why could not the reason We can anticipate be because we are intelligent and the objects are outside us?
Physicists have not arrived at an agreed upon notion of space and time. Most are realists in the sense that they do not think they are merely ideas in the mind, but we should not simply dismiss Kant because of this. We are still dealing with how we make sense of things, with mathematical models rather than direct observations of space and time.Of course there is his theses that space and time is only a human’s Ground of representation of the outside and inner world where these are nothing outside of us. Now what does physics tells us?
Doesn’t one of the articles point out that there is not even consensus on what his theories entail?Which is the reason why I am here, to find if there is any consensus on his theories
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Re: Kant
He claims we have Apodictic certainty that there cannot be no space BECAUSE space is the ground of our representation. Now I question, why can’t our so called apodictic certainty be due to that space itself cannot be absent and we judge it correctly rather than it due to being our so called ground? For instance two parallel lines shall not meet is not because the lines are part of the ground of the basis of our red presentation but rather they cannot meet because in reality they cannot meet!?
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Re: Kant
What you've written above seems to be the contrary nature of understanding that Kant does his hardest to cut up into manageable pieces.
I seem to remember him saying something along the lines of the impossibility of imagining anything without "space." He was essentially continuing the dualistic problem exposed by Descartes and feeling out its contrary nature.
Also, two parallel lines exist, abstractly or otherwise, only within space (abstractly or otherwise.)
- The Beast
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Re: Kant
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Re: Kant
But they can meet depending on the topology. On a two dimensional plane they do not meet, but twist the paper and they do. Our representations of space have their topologies when we factor in such things as gravity.For instance two parallel lines shall not meet is not because the lines are part of the ground of the basis of our red presentation but rather they cannot meet because in reality they cannot meet!?:
If we had no idea of space, that is, if we could not represent it, we could not represent the relation between things or their location. An animal with two dimensional rather than three dimensional sight does not represent space in the same way as we do. What would our concept of space be like if we only saw in two dimensions? would we have to figure out depth via experience? Could we do so if the mind was not able to do so a priori?Now I question, why can’t our so called apodictic certainty be due to that space itself cannot be absent and we judge it correctly rather than it due to being our so called ground?
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Re: Kant
Did I say we have no representation of space? The relevant section is Transcendental Aesthetic B37 points one and two. Someone quote it hereFooloso4 wrote: ↑March 31st, 2018, 4:51 pmIf we had no idea of space, that is, if we could not represent it, we could not represent the relation between things or their location. An animal with two dimensional rather than three dimensional sight does not represent space in the same way as we do. What would our concept of space be like if we only saw in two dimensions? would we have to figure out depth via experience? Could we do so if the mind was not able to do so a priori?Now I question, why can’t our so called apodictic certainty be due to that space itself cannot be absent and we judge it correctly rather than it due to being our so called ground?
Kant claims we are not able to represent no space while we are able to represent no object. Somehow this leads to the conclusion space is an intuition in us.
I am merely counter claiming why could it not be the case we are not able to represent “no space” because of some logical reason that there cannot be no space rather it being due to an intuition in us? Just like Decartes mentioned he cannot imagine a four sided triangle
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Re: Kant
The relevant section is Transcendental Aesthetic B37 points one and two. Someone quote it here
How’s this?
Now what are space and time? Are they actual entities [wirkliche Wesen]? Are they only determinations or also relations of things, but still such as would belong to them even if they were not intuited? Or are they such that they belong only to the form of intuition, and therefore to the subjective constitution of our mind, without which these predicates could not be ascribed to any things at all? (A23/B37-8).
Sorry I misunderstood you. Let me make sure I have it right by putting it in the form of a proposition: Perhaps there is a logical reason why there must be space, and it is for this reason that we cannot represent the absence of space.I am merely counter claiming why could it not be the case we are not able to represent “no space” because of some logical reason that there cannot be no space rather it being due to an intuition in us? Just like Decartes mentioned he cannot imagine a four sided triangle
Do you mean logical a priori? Or do you mean something about time as an actual entity that would logically prevent it from not existing? If the former, are you suggesting that such a reason would mean that space is a concept rather than an intuition? If it is a concept it is not just like the case of a four sided triangle. We know by definition that a triangle has three sides. Space has no definition by which we can determine that “no space” is logically impossible.
Kant’s concern is transcendental: the condition of the possibility of appearances. (A24/B38-9) If space were a concept but not a universally agreed upon concept how could it stand as the transcendental condition of the possibility of appearances? If it is a physical entity there is still the question of how it is represented.
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Re: Kant
Nothing compares with the mechanisms packed in the brain of a mosquito buzzing around doing effortless calculations to points in the fourth dimension. To me, existencial negatives require a bigger brain. Enter Kant -ϴ
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