Life and Death Choices
- sunshines
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Life and Death Choices
- LuckyR
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Re: Life and Death Choices
The reality is that they have the choice and many choose to kill themselves, albeit very, very slowly (mainly through poor life choices).sunshines wrote: ↑June 4th, 2018, 11:31 am Will people who are suffering with illness, poverty, unwanted circumstances in life choose to end their life, like be euthanized, if given a choice? How would the world be if every single person is given a choice? Should people who are suffering be give a choice?
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Re: Life and Death Choices
Seems to me like the wrong question. Even a bizarre question.
Given a choice....?
Who has the authority to give or withhold that choice from other people?
How did legislators and jurists gain that authority, that awesome power?
Do they have the qualifications to decide?
Do they have the necessary information to decide wisely?
Do they have the moral superiority to make a better decision than the person whose life they are presiding over?
Is it right that anyone should have such a power over others?
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Re: Life and Death Choices
This liberal answer... but it is not easy like that in some special community that believe in rights of society to decide about its interests.Alias wrote: ↑June 5th, 2018, 10:53 pmSeems to me like the wrong question. Even a bizarre question.
Given a choice....?
Who has the authority to give or withhold that choice from other people?
How did legislators and jurists gain that authority, that awesome power?
Do they have the qualifications to decide?
Do they have the necessary information to decide wisely?
Do they have the moral superiority to make a better decision than the person whose life they are presiding over?
Is it right that anyone should have such a power over others?
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Re: Life and Death Choices
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Re: Life and Death Choices
It wasn't an answer. It was a series of questions that every citizen of every society ought to be able to answer.
Okay, you have one partial answer: some societies hold the belief that the collective (or its rulers?) has the right to make life-and-death decisions over its individual members, in order to serve the community's interest.
I can see where this would mean submitting to the death penalty for crimes against the community, and to a draft in time of war to serve the community's interest by killing and dying.
I don't see how it serves any community to keep damaged and diseased individuals alive longer than those people want to live.
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Re: Life and Death Choices
Not necessarily material interests, there are also literary and moral concepts, including religion and the tribe. Not all societies are rational.Alias wrote: ↑June 6th, 2018, 10:30 amIt wasn't an answer. It was a series of questions that every citizen of every society ought to be able to answer.
Okay, you have one partial answer: some societies hold the belief that the collective (or its rulers?) has the right to make life-and-death decisions over its individual members, in order to serve the community's interest.
I can see where this would mean submitting to the death penalty for crimes against the community, and to a draft in time of war to serve the community's interest by killing and dying.
I don't see how it serves any community to keep damaged and diseased individuals alive longer than those people want to live.
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Re: Life and Death Choices
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Re: Life and Death Choices
Literary? Do you mean that folklore is so important that individuals ought to be willing to suffer years of anguish to serve it?
Do you not feel that the individual members should question that belief?
If enough individuals question, or reject such a belief, the society will change. Societies always change.
The moral concept is unclear.
Should irrational religion always take precedence over the interest of its members?
What happens in a society that has no official state religion?
Should the secular membership have freedoms from religion in a mixed population?
Or should a religious majority dictate all moral tenets for the entire population?
- ThomasHobbes
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Re: Life and Death Choices
You are not even wrong. It's a mistaken position. It's pointless trying to apply "rationality" to a society since it is a collective of individuals, and incapable of the process of rationalising.
A society may never reason or apply rationality, but can only seem to respond to circumstances when a majority of individuals in that society are aware of a situation to which they tend to respond or act in similar ways.
No societies are rational.
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Re: Life and Death Choices
OK..Alias wrote: ↑June 6th, 2018, 4:23 pmLiterary? Do you mean that folklore is so important that individuals ought to be willing to suffer years of anguish to serve it?
Do you not feel that the individual members should question that belief?
If enough individuals question, or reject such a belief, the society will change. Societies always change.
The moral concept is unclear.
Should irrational religion always take precedence over the interest of its members?
What happens in a society that has no official state religion?
Should the secular membership have freedoms from religion in a mixed population?
Or should a religious majority dictate all moral tenets for the entire population?
Let me refer to a real story that happened here in Africa.
There is a tribe where the wives of the tribal leader beat him to death when he grows old.
The Criminal Code punishes such conduct as murder.
But we can not apply the law because this is the culture of this tribe.
We are one of two options: either to apply the law and thus to destroy the culture of this tribe. or
We do not keep the law in respect of the culture of this tribe.
We choose the second option because there is a principle that says: No one has absolute truth. Everyone has his own truth.
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Re: Life and Death Choices
Who made the Criminal Code? Is this tribe a minority in a country where everyone else rejects ancient tribal practices, or did they just inherit the British colonial legal system?kordofany wrote: ↑June 7th, 2018, 1:35 am OK..
Let me refer to a real story that happened here in Africa.
There is a tribe where the wives of the tribal leader beat him to death when he grows old.
The Criminal Code punishes such conduct as murder.
But we can not apply the law because this is the culture of this tribe.
We are one of two options: either to apply the law and thus to destroy the culture of this tribe. or
We do not keep the law in respect of the culture of this tribe.
We choose the second option because there is a principle that says: No one has absolute truth. Everyone has his own truth.
I can think of two ways around the problem: 1. Give that tribe self-rule or special exemption. 2. Offer sanctuary, outside of his tribe's territory, to any old man who wants to escape his traditional fate.
But the question was whether society, or its leaders, or its laws, should have a right to force people to stay alive when they don't want to.
If the old chief wants to be beaten to death by his wives, you're already doing the right thing by leaving them alone.
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Re: Life and Death Choices
Yes you are rightAlias wrote: ↑June 7th, 2018, 9:40 amWho made the Criminal Code? Is this tribe a minority in a country where everyone else rejects ancient tribal practices, or did they just inherit the British colonial legal system?kordofany wrote: ↑June 7th, 2018, 1:35 am OK..
Let me refer to a real story that happened here in Africa.
There is a tribe where the wives of the tribal leader beat him to death when he grows old.
The Criminal Code punishes such conduct as murder.
But we can not apply the law because this is the culture of this tribe.
We are one of two options: either to apply the law and thus to destroy the culture of this tribe. or
We do not keep the law in respect of the culture of this tribe.
We choose the second option because there is a principle that says: No one has absolute truth. Everyone has his own truth.
I can think of two ways around the problem: 1. Give that tribe self-rule or special exemption. 2. Offer sanctuary, outside of his tribe's territory, to any old man who wants to escape his traditional fate.
But the question was whether society, or its leaders, or its laws, should have a right to force people to stay alive when they don't want to.
If the old chief wants to be beaten to death by his wives, you're already doing the right thing by leaving them alone.
- Felix
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Re: Life and Death Choices
Ah, the joys of polygamy!There is a tribe where the wives of the tribal leader beat him to death when he grows old.
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