What is the beginning of Knowledge?

Discuss any topics related to metaphysics (the philosophical study of the principles of reality) or epistemology (the philosophical study of knowledge) in this forum.
User avatar
Ghazanfar Arif
New Trial Member
Posts: 5
Joined: June 28th, 2018, 2:58 am

What is the beginning of Knowledge?

Post by Ghazanfar Arif » June 28th, 2018, 3:34 am

Hi guys,

I want to know about the following statements/pharases which one is correct to you and why


Wonder is the beginning of knowledge.

Skepticism is the beginning of knowledge.

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge.

is there any interactions between them or it is your personnel experience three or correct.

User avatar
LuckyR
Moderator
Posts: 3030
Joined: January 18th, 2015, 1:16 am

Re: What is the beginning of Knowledge?

Post by LuckyR » June 29th, 2018, 2:05 am

Ghazanfar Arif wrote:
June 28th, 2018, 3:34 am
Hi guys,

I want to know about the following statements/pharases which one is correct to you and why


Wonder is the beginning of knowledge.

Skepticism is the beginning of knowledge.

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge.

is there any interactions between them or it is your personnel experience three or correct.
I would go with skepticism, because there is no shortage of data, but wisdom (different from knowledge) comes from experience to stratify data by quality and relevance.
"As usual... it depends."

User avatar
Mosesquine
Posts: 182
Joined: September 3rd, 2016, 4:17 am

Re: What is the beginning of Knowledge?

Post by Mosesquine » June 29th, 2018, 6:56 am

Ghazanfar Arif wrote:
June 28th, 2018, 3:34 am
Hi guys,

I want to know about the following statements/pharases which one is correct to you and why


Wonder is the beginning of knowledge.

Skepticism is the beginning of knowledge.

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge.

is there any interactions between them or it is your personnel experience three or correct.


The term 'the beginning of knowledge' itself is not clear. There are some possible variations: 'the foundation of knowledge', 'the source of knowledge', 'the cause of knowledge', and the like.

Karpel Tunnel
Posts: 483
Joined: February 16th, 2018, 11:28 am

Re: What is the beginning of Knowledge?

Post by Karpel Tunnel » June 29th, 2018, 7:30 am

The beginning of knowledge is experience.
The beginning of knowledge is trying stuff out.
The beginning of knowledge is that interplay with mom's face.

User avatar
Ghazanfar Arif
New Trial Member
Posts: 5
Joined: June 28th, 2018, 2:58 am

Re: What is the beginning of Knowledge?

Post by Ghazanfar Arif » June 29th, 2018, 4:02 pm

Good Karpel Tunnel

User avatar
mr533473
Posts: 54
Joined: July 1st, 2018, 8:12 am

Re: What is the beginning of Knowledge?

Post by mr533473 » July 1st, 2018, 9:35 am

I'm with Mosesquine here, "The term 'the beginning of knowledge' itself is not clear." It seems like the problem might lay in the fact that you are somewhat reverse engineering your phrase, assuming that there is an identifiable "beginning of knowledge" and then inserting various options to see what fits.

What would you say if I asked you what the beginning of knowledge is? If you have an answer then you have no need to pose your question and can go on and insert your response at the beginning of your phrase, however if you don't (which you don't) you have no reason to assume there is a beginning of knowledge in which case the latter part of your phrase ought to be removed. This leaves you with nothing, which could be perceived as a bad thing but I hope you see it merely as a problem that no longer exists, thus a good thing.

User avatar
chewybrian
Posts: 216
Joined: May 9th, 2018, 7:17 pm
Favorite Philosopher: Epictetus
Location: Florida man

Re: What is the beginning of Knowledge?

Post by chewybrian » July 2nd, 2018, 8:04 am

Ghazanfar Arif wrote:
June 28th, 2018, 3:34 am
Hi guys,

I want to know about the following statements/pharases which one is correct to you and why


Wonder is the beginning of knowledge.

Skepticism is the beginning of knowledge.

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge.
Of these choices, perhaps skepticism is closest to the truth.

I would say suspension of belief is the first step, in the manner of Socrates, and Descartes, and Epictetus:
The beginning of philosophy to him at least who enters on it in the right way and by the door, is a consciousness of his own weakness and inability about necessary things...

...And the cause of this is that we come into the world already taught as it were by nature some things on this matter, and proceeding from these we have added to them self-conceit. "For why," a man says, "do I not know the beautiful and the ugly? Have I not the notion of it?" You have. "Do I not adapt it to particulars?" You do. "Do I not then adapt it properly?" In that lies the whole question; and conceit is added here. For, beginning from these things which are admitted, men proceed to that which is matter of dispute by means of unsuitable adaptation; for if they possessed this power of adaptation in addition to those things, what would hinder them from being perfect?...

...Does the madman do any other things than the things as in which seem to him right? Is then this criterion for him also? It is not sufficient. Come then to something which is superior to seeming. What is this?...

...Observe, this is the beginning of philosophy, a perception of the disagreement of men with one another, and an inquiry into the cause of the disagreement, and a condemnation and distrust of that which only "seems," and a certain investigation of that which "seems" whether it "seems" rightly, and a discovery of some rule, as we have discovered a balance in the determination of weights, and a carpenter's rule in the case of straight and crooked things. This is the beginning of philosophy...

...Thus things are tested and weighed when the rules are ready. And to philosophize is this, to examine and confirm the rules; and then to use them when they are known is the act of a wise and good man." Epictetus, "The Discourses", book 2, chapter 11
So, we often fail to attain knowledge because we don't begin with well-deserved humility. We begin instead with preconceptions, and lazy habits of seeing everything through the lens of our (often unfounded) beliefs, and an undeserved respect for our own ability to get things right without doing the necessary work. We jump to the conclusion(s) that fit our beliefs and avoid the proper steps of investigation that should be applied at each level of understanding. We enter the arena armed with pseudo-logic designed to discredit our opponent rather than disprove his position. We dismiss opposing views because they oppose our view, rather than because they are disproved.

Most of us we never taught how to learn, and are too full of ourselves to gain anything from these arguments of Epictetus, even if we are presented with them. Surely, there are people in the world who need that advice, like our ignorant and incorrect opponents, but not US, right?

http://classics.mit.edu/Epictetus/discourses.2.two.html

User avatar
mr533473
Posts: 54
Joined: July 1st, 2018, 8:12 am

Re: What is the beginning of Knowledge?

Post by mr533473 » July 4th, 2018, 6:29 am

Ghazanfar Arif wrote:
June 28th, 2018, 3:34 am
Hi guys,

I want to know about the following statements/pharases which one is correct to you and why


Wonder is the beginning of knowledge.

Skepticism is the beginning of knowledge.

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge.

is there any interactions between them or it is your personnel experience three or correct.
I just realised that I misinterpreted your post. I though you were trying to work out the best option for you to use, like you were writing something and wanted assistance to define the beginning of knowledge. On second view I realise that it's just an open ended question to spur dialogue so dismiss my last post. My bad.

Wayne92587
Posts: 1756
Joined: January 27th, 2012, 9:32 pm
Favorite Philosopher: Hermese Trismegistus

Re: What is the beginning of Knowledge?

Post by Wayne92587 » July 9th, 2018, 1:44 pm

Need is not only, the father of invention, Need is also the Father of Knowledge and the mother of Knowledge.

Feminity is the mother of Knowledge, Absolutely Bad Knowledge, that is mistaken to be Absolutely Good Knowledge, Knowledge having a dual quality. the knowledge of Good and Evil.

User avatar
ThomasHobbes
Posts: 1120
Joined: May 5th, 2018, 5:53 pm

Re: What is the beginning of Knowledge?

Post by ThomasHobbes » July 9th, 2018, 5:22 pm

Ghazanfar Arif wrote:
June 28th, 2018, 3:34 am
Hi guys,

I want to know about the following statements/pharases which one is correct to you and why


Wonder is the beginning of knowledge.

Skepticism is the beginning of knowledge.

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge.

is there any interactions between them or it is your personnel experience three or correct.
None of the above.

We are born with a limited amount of knowledge and this grows with experience.
It starts with the search for the nipple. We know to seek that at least. Upon finding it we gain knowledge of sustenance and warmth.

User avatar
Greta
Site Admin
Posts: 7240
Joined: December 16th, 2013, 9:05 pm

Re: What is the beginning of Knowledge?

Post by Greta » July 9th, 2018, 7:27 pm

ThomasHobbes wrote:
July 9th, 2018, 5:22 pm
Ghazanfar Arif wrote:
June 28th, 2018, 3:34 am
Hi guys,

I want to know about the following statements/pharases which one is correct to you and why


Wonder is the beginning of knowledge.

Skepticism is the beginning of knowledge.

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge.

is there any interactions between them or it is your personnel experience three or correct.
None of the above.

We are born with a limited amount of knowledge ...
I'd like to focus on that. Genetics is in effect accumulated knowledge automatically passed on by our ancestors - the knowledge of bodies that survived. So we know to cry for air, orient to a nipple and to suck, to exercise the limbs, to notice and interpret facial cues amongst other things just as birds know how to make nests.

User avatar
Mosesquine
Posts: 182
Joined: September 3rd, 2016, 4:17 am

Re: What is the beginning of Knowledge?

Post by Mosesquine » July 10th, 2018, 5:05 am

The naturalized epistemologists might suggest that sensations are starting points of knowledge. So-called sensations, perceptions, bundles of stimulus, etc., might be called 'the beginning (or the beginnings) of knowledge'.

User avatar
Ghazanfar Arif
New Trial Member
Posts: 5
Joined: June 28th, 2018, 2:58 am

Re: What is the beginning of Knowledge?

Post by Ghazanfar Arif » July 10th, 2018, 3:33 pm

Mosesquine wrote:
July 10th, 2018, 5:05 am
The naturalized epistemologists might suggest that sensations are starting points of knowledge. So-called sensations, perceptions, bundles of stimulus, etc., might be called 'the beginning (or the beginnings) of knowledge'.
How sensation, bundles of stimulus are starting points of knowledge ?

User avatar
Ghazanfar Arif
New Trial Member
Posts: 5
Joined: June 28th, 2018, 2:58 am

Re: What is the beginning of Knowledge?

Post by Ghazanfar Arif » July 10th, 2018, 3:34 pm

chewybrian wrote:
July 2nd, 2018, 8:04 am
Ghazanfar Arif wrote:
June 28th, 2018, 3:34 am
Hi guys,

I want to know about the following statements/pharases which one is correct to you and why


Wonder is the beginning of knowledge.

Skepticism is the beginning of knowledge.

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge.
Of these choices, perhaps skepticism is closest to the truth.

I would say suspension of belief is the first step, in the manner of Socrates, and Descartes, and Epictetus:
The beginning of philosophy to him at least who enters on it in the right way and by the door, is a consciousness of his own weakness and inability about necessary things...

...And the cause of this is that we come into the world already taught as it were by nature some things on this matter, and proceeding from these we have added to them self-conceit. "For why," a man says, "do I not know the beautiful and the ugly? Have I not the notion of it?" You have. "Do I not adapt it to particulars?" You do. "Do I not then adapt it properly?" In that lies the whole question; and conceit is added here. For, beginning from these things which are admitted, men proceed to that which is matter of dispute by means of unsuitable adaptation; for if they possessed this power of adaptation in addition to those things, what would hinder them from being perfect?...

...Does the madman do any other things than the things as in which seem to him right? Is then this criterion for him also? It is not sufficient. Come then to something which is superior to seeming. What is this?...

...Observe, this is the beginning of philosophy, a perception of the disagreement of men with one another, and an inquiry into the cause of the disagreement, and a condemnation and distrust of that which only "seems," and a certain investigation of that which "seems" whether it "seems" rightly, and a discovery of some rule, as we have discovered a balance in the determination of weights, and a carpenter's rule in the case of straight and crooked things. This is the beginning of philosophy...

...Thus things are tested and weighed when the rules are ready. And to philosophize is this, to examine and confirm the rules; and then to use them when they are known is the act of a wise and good man." Epictetus, "The Discourses", book 2, chapter 11
So, we often fail to attain knowledge because we don't begin with well-deserved humility. We begin instead with preconceptions, and lazy habits of seeing everything through the lens of our (often unfounded) beliefs, and an undeserved respect for our own ability to get things right without doing the necessary work. We jump to the conclusion(s) that fit our beliefs and avoid the proper steps of investigation that should be applied at each level of understanding. We enter the arena armed with pseudo-logic designed to discredit our opponent rather than disprove his position. We dismiss opposing views because they oppose our view, rather than because they are disproved.

Most of us we never taught how to learn, and are too full of ourselves to gain anything from these arguments of Epictetus, even if we are presented with them. Surely, there are people in the world who need that advice, like our ignorant and incorrect opponents, but not US, right?

http://classics.mit.edu/Epictetus/discourses.2.two.html


Thanks for your reply . Yes your are right.

User avatar
Ghazanfar Arif
New Trial Member
Posts: 5
Joined: June 28th, 2018, 2:58 am

Re: What is the beginning of Knowledge?

Post by Ghazanfar Arif » July 10th, 2018, 3:36 pm

mr533473 wrote:
July 4th, 2018, 6:29 am
Ghazanfar Arif wrote:
June 28th, 2018, 3:34 am
Hi guys,

I want to know about the following statements/pharases which one is correct to you and why


Wonder is the beginning of knowledge.

Skepticism is the beginning of knowledge.

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge.

is there any interactions between them or it is your personnel experience three or correct.
I just realised that I misinterpreted your post. I though you were trying to work out the best option for you to use, like you were writing something and wanted assistance to define the beginning of knowledge. On second view I realise that it's just an open ended question to spur dialogue so dismiss my last post. My bad.
I want to take views from your sides.Thanks for your reply

Post Reply