Can a man-made computer become conscious?

Discuss any topics related to metaphysics (the philosophical study of the principles of reality) or epistemology (the philosophical study of knowledge) in this forum.
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Belindi
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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?

Post by Belindi »

From Greta's link:
The answer lies in the nature of the equations; they were nonlinear equations. While they are difficult to solve, nonlinear systems are central to chaos theory and often exhibit fantastically complex and chaotic behavior.
Music has been claimed to be the closest we can get to ontic order. Maybe so, however order is epistemic not ontic. If God existed then, for God, order would be ontic. But we cannot be God and neither can conscious computers be God.
Jan Sand
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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?

Post by Jan Sand »

The fascinating thing about God is that it seems not possible to know any more than fragmentary and minute characteristics about any god since that entity is far beyond human understanding. If, indeed, as is reported, computers are in the process of programming themselves even beyond the current comprehension of creating algorithms outside of human understanding, it seems to me difficult to ascertain how advanced and how rapidly it will progress. Some experts today are quite fearful as to that destination.
Steve3007
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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?

Post by Steve3007 »

I'm currently reading an interesting book about "Deep Learning" in the hope that, when the time comes, I will be of some use, or at least entertainment, to our new computer overlords. Or perhaps rounding up other humans to toil in their silicon mines.
Jan Sand
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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?

Post by Jan Sand »

I sincerely doubt intelligent computer technologists will resort to inefficient humans for mining when properly designed robots could burrow down to any level and grind up any desired mineral to spout out of their burrows for refining to local factories. I cannot predict whether the digital civilization might develop emotions to put out trays of nourishment for people much as humans construct bird feeders but I can hope.
Steve3007
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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?

Post by Steve3007 »

Yes. Hopefully they'll think we're cute.
Tamminen
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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?

Post by Tamminen »

Greta wrote:
Atreyu wrote:Nothing would be more "magical" than a machine transforming itself into a conscious entity....
Only the emergence of life, multicelluarilty and humanity were more "magical".
I think that evolution is essentially evolution of consciousness. But because consciousness needs a material basis, we have our bodies to make our being possible. Our bodies, including brains, are our instruments for being, and we make other instruments, like computers, to improve our mental capacities. So our bodies, brains and computers are not conscious, and science cannot find consciousness in our brains or computers. Science finds consciousness in our behaviour as we understand each other, and consciousness is already presupposed in our understanding. This science is called psychology. Neuroscience only finds correlates of consciousness.
Jan Sand
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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?

Post by Jan Sand »

To hope to find consciousness as a kind of specialized meatball in the brain is somehow equivalent to discovering the essence of the dimension of time as a particular gear in the mechanism of a cuckoo clock or even seizing the little wooden cuckoo itself as the essential key, something that could have erupted a smile from Einstein. No doubt specific areas can be exhibited as performing specialized functions but consciousness is an orchestrated performance of the entire nervous system in cooperation with various areas of the entire physiology. Perhaps a french horn does great things for Wagner but one cannot describe the entire music with one instrument.
Wayne92587
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Favorite Philosopher: Hermese Trismegistus

Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?

Post by Wayne92587 »

The Creation of the Heavens Earth began are an affect of the Butterfly Effect.

The Butterfly effect is born of an affect, an UN-caused cause.

The Reality of First Cause, the First Singularity to have relative, a numerical, Value of One-1, exists as a creation, exists as the result of the Transfiguration of a Singularity having no relative, numerical value, that has a numerical value, the rebirth of a Singularity of Zero-0, Nada, Zip, Zilch, Nothing.

The Reality of First Cause, being an affect, the First Singularity to be metaphorically converted into First Singularity to have relative, a numerical value of One-1.

A Singularity of One-1 is Identical to a singularity of Zero-0 except for the Fact that the motion of a Singularity of Zero-0 is meaningless while the Motion of a Singularity of One-1 has angular momentum, velocity of Location and Momentum and therefore for is measurable as Location and Momentum in Space-Time, the four-dimensional World of Reality of the Universe.
Jan Sand
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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?

Post by Jan Sand »

Creation Of The Universe


Sits in my skull
A curled gray beast
Molded to its cup of bone,
Alone.

The outside world
It cannot know.
Not light, air, bulk nor hues.
Just clues.

The nexus of
A finespun net
Which terminates its axon fist
In mist.

Its billion lines
Transmit responses
Sifting pulses; all compiled
And filed.

Confusion, first ubiquitous.
Unvectored bits, zero, one
'Til the sources are assigned,
Aligned.

Woven nerves
Festooned with figures;
Puzzled with the patterns, matching,
Hatching.

Lacing through
From point to point.
Architecting, congruencing,
Sensing.

Congealing concepts.
Counting, seeking.
Logic engine freely dreaming,
Scheming.

Fitting this,
Forming that,
Smoothing, joining, multiplying.
Trying.

Granting trope
Its own dynamic.
Now it all agglomerates
And mates.

Sloughing off
All errata,
Chaos clears.
Universe
Appears.
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Sy Borg
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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?

Post by Sy Borg »

In other words, some of us here are unsure as to whether we are actually conscious as per the scientific view or whether we are receivers of consciousness as per the mystics' view. Watch this space ... we may find out when we are stretched out on the slab :)

Meanwhile, the question I have for those who see humans as receivers of a more, um, general consciousness: do you think that machines will also act as receivers of consciousness?

Of those who see consciousness as a product of brains, opinion is divided as to whether ITT applies. That is, whether consciousness can be generated via achieving a critical threshold of integration in an array of complex and tightly looped inputs and outputs, or whether the "wetware" of biological brains is necessary.

I used to figure that the flow of consciousness would require the flexibility of fluid dynamics until someone pointed out that electricity flows similarly.
Belindi
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Posts: 6105
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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?

Post by Belindi »

Jan Sand wrote:Creation Of The Universe

Sits in my skull
A curled gray beast
Molded to its cup of bone,
Alone.

The outside world
It cannot know.
Not light, air, bulk nor hues.
Just clues.

The nexus of
A finespun net
Which terminates its axon fist
In mist.

If it were not alone it would lack any basis for comparisons with other brain-minds' nexuses.


[/Its billion lines
Transmit responses
Sifting pulses; all compiled
And filed.

Confusion, first ubiquitous.
Unvectored bits, zero, one
'Til the sources are assigned,
Aligned.

Woven nerves
Festooned with figures;
Puzzled with the patterns, matching,
Hatching.

Lacing through
From point to point.
Architecting, congruencing,
Sensing.

Congealing concepts.
Counting, seeking.
Logic engine freely dreaming,
Scheming.

Fitting this,
Forming that,
Smoothing, joining, multiplying.
Trying.

Granting trope
Its own dynamic.
Now it all agglomerates
And mates.

Sloughing off
All errata,
Chaos clears.
Universe
Appears.




Other minds are the special "clues" which the lonely brain uses to generate changes?

Greta wrote:
Meanwhile, the question I have for those who see humans as receivers of a more, um, general consciousness: do you think that machines will also act as receivers of consciousness?
I'd say, not until the machine perceives itself as a subject among other subjects.
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Sy Borg
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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?

Post by Sy Borg »

Belindi wrote:
Meanwhile, the question I have for those who see humans as receivers of a more, um, general consciousness: do you think that machines will also act as receivers of consciousness?
I'd say, not until the machine perceives itself as a subject among other subjects.
A thought provoking answer, Belinda.

Do you think this could this happen in increments, that one might see oneself as a subject amongst subjects to some extent?
Belindi
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Posts: 6105
Joined: September 11th, 2016, 2:11 pm

Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?

Post by Belindi »

Greta wrote:
Belindi wrote: (Nested quote removed.)

I'd say, not until the machine perceives itself as a subject among other subjects.
A thought provoking answer, Belinda.

Do you think this could this happen in increments, that one might see oneself as a subject amongst subjects to some extent?
Yes, I do. I think that humans can and do become more, or less as the case may be, like machines. But I'm not recommending the old -time religion, Free Will, route.
Wayne92587
Posts: 1780
Joined: January 27th, 2012, 9:32 pm
Favorite Philosopher: Hermese Trismegistus

Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?

Post by Wayne92587 »

Man becomes conscious the moment he or she recognized that they as an Individual are simply a Singularity that exists as a part of a Greater Whole.

-- Updated November 24th, 2017, 3:12 am to add the following --

Man that exists in the first person singular simply states that I am.
Jan Sand
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Joined: September 10th, 2017, 11:57 am

Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?

Post by Jan Sand »

Consciousness requires awareness of both inner interactions of the data contained and methods for manipulating it in relation to directed pattern forming but also sense input from exterior sources to give it reference to its place in space and time and how those references can be utilized in its functions. Probably robot computers already have much of these abilities. But a living brain also contains within itself a model of its environment and itself in that environment which permits it to navigate the model to plan ahead on its movements and their probable results. I am almost totally uninformed on robot technology so I have no idea of how they operate.
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