Can a man-made computer become conscious?
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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?
- Sy Borg
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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?
Yes, this is where my optimism comes in - that machines have the potential to be more reasonable and morally consistent than people. This calm utilitarianism may well work with society at large scales rather than having decisions influenced by buddies, ego and fixed, irrational ideologies. However, at the small scale, individuals are more like the little girl with the little curl or perhaps Forrest Gump's chocolates :)Belindi wrote: ↑June 18th, 2018, 3:25 amIf the intelligent machine were to be made so that they were devoid of confirmation bias then they could not be any sort of ideologues as their decision tree would constantly look to their natural and social environment. Those machines would be ethically superior to human beings, and any society founded upon the morality of those intelligent machines would be Utopian.Mark1955 wrote: ↑June 17th, 2018, 4:50 am
Agreed, a decision tree lacks the tendency to confirmational bias that the brain shows, but could we program a computer to corrupt it's decision tree with confirmational bias and all the other inherent imperfections the brain demonstrates, so it behaved like a brain. Possibly one day. Would that then make it impossible to distinguish from a human, and if it can't be distinguished from a human how can we say it isn't conscious if we think humans are conscious.
On the other hand if the intelligent machines were to be made to be servants to power-hungry ideologues whose confirmation biases skewed their perceptions of their social and natural environments then the intelligent machines' decision trees would be as faulty as their owners' decision trees, and they would more empower their unpleasant owners.
They will be abused, but that process is already in train. Does it matter whether a decision comes from a machine or an inflexible company policy "programmed" by a committee or board?
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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?
The all-seeing, all-perceiving intelligent machine would learn about that aspect of its environment which is local traditions and local world views, and take those into consideration along with its knowledge of local weather systems and local terrain. Indeed the local and detailed is the best data for historians and other social sciences.Jan Sand wrote: ↑June 18th, 2018, 3:51 am The concept of a mechanical version of ethical considerations is, to say the least, quite amusing. Ethics is basically a system of considerations relating to the functions of human society and how they maybe constrained for maximum benefit tosociety's members. A machine probably has the potential to be fitted with the presumed constraints of a particular set of ethics but these systems vary considerably between cultures so the universal set of ethics has yet to be determined since no social order yet produced by humanity has been able to resolve the many contradictions between the many suppositions of propriety. Utopia is a fantasy of human suppositions yet to be satisfactorily formulated.
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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?
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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?
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On the other hand there are people who are trained to be as objective as possible for men to be. Who will win, the conformers to someone else's bias, or the objective observers? That fight is still being fought, Jan.People who are members of society all their lives and who are grown up within society and trained to behave in a particular manner to conform to social practices obviously violate accepted ethics in tremendous numbers because of personal considerations as evidenced by many powerful and capable leaders in government and legal situations and financial organizations amongst many other institutions.
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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?
- Mark1955
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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?
For the machines or the lower beings like us. After all the simplest way to a more ethical society would be to eliminate the unethical humans.Belindi wrote: ↑June 18th, 2018, 3:25 amIf the intelligent machine were to be made so that they were devoid of confirmation bias then they could not be any sort of ideologues as their decision tree would constantly look to their natural and social environment. Those machines would be ethically superior to human beings, and any society founded upon the morality of those intelligent machines would be Utopian.Mark1955 wrote: ↑June 17th, 2018, 4:50 am
Agreed, a decision tree lacks the tendency to confirmational bias that the brain shows, but could we program a computer to corrupt it's decision tree with confirmational bias and all the other inherent imperfections the brain demonstrates, so it behaved like a brain. Possibly one day. Would that then make it impossible to distinguish from a human, and if it can't be distinguished from a human how can we say it isn't conscious if we think humans are conscious.
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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?
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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?
But the more ethical humans , who I claim are the same as the more reasoning humans, are not so sure of themselves that they'd be so Draconian.After all the simplest way to a more ethical society would be to eliminate the unethical humans.
If there were such as a wholly knowledgeable wholly reasoning machine it would closely resemble the old-fashioned omniscient God who could not blame any human for anything which that human did.
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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?
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- Sy Borg
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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?
Nature has its own version. People (and others) are not punished for being bad, rather they are punished for being weak, slow, soft, dumb, gentle, fearful or unlucky. Our ancestors were the strong, fast, smart, aggressive, brave and lucky.Belindi wrote: ↑June 19th, 2018, 12:24 pm Mark1955 wrote:But the more ethical humans , who I claim are the same as the more reasoning humans, are not so sure of themselves that they'd be so Draconian.After all the simplest way to a more ethical society would be to eliminate the unethical humans.
If there were such as a wholly knowledgeable wholly reasoning machine it would closely resemble the old-fashioned omniscient God who could not blame any human for anything which that human did.
As far as I can tell, our laws and social structures largely support nature's approach, but there have been many successes along the way in attempts to alleviate the harshness of it all.
As for a reasoning machine, plants and various other organisms - not to mention technology - suggest to us that intelligence without associated consciousness is common. So a reasoning machine need not be conscious to be highly effective.
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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?
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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?
Yes, true. But humans evolved not only through the genetic channel but intrinsically they evolved through the culture channel, and to a significantly much greater extent than any other animal. Even before the advent of written recording of cultures there was oral skill and tradition, and pictures. Human cultures shaped genetic evolution. Genetic evolution has much machine- like logic but it's unlikely that anybody would call cultural evolution a 'machine'.There is a tendency in this discussion to relegate the term "machine" to an artificial human construction but any energetic interaction of matter is, essentially, mechanical.
I am not claiming that all cultures are equally sustainable. It's true that societies led by power oriented cultures, such as the fascist , xenophobic , or Bolshevic are viable for a period. However natural disasters tend to improve the relative power of individual hewers of wood and drawers of water if only by means of attrition. Reason, which is man's especial forte, shows that moderate socialism is more viable than any culture which benefits mainly the governing elite.
After you and I are dead or hopelessly decrepit, Jan Sand, the fight will continue.
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