Can a man-made computer become conscious?

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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?

Post Number:#2491  Postby Wayne92587 » April 17th, 2017, 11:40 am

Reason is a good candidate for absolute authority on how we can know anything but its candidature has to be questioned



I almost hesitate to respond to your post, however I believe that my response is important even though some will label me a religious fanatic.

The Rational mind has the propensity to Rationalize, create Absolutely Bad Knowledge that is easily mistaken to be Absolutely Good Knowledge, Knowledge having a Dual Quality, the knowledge of Good and Evil, the greatest cause of all Unnecessary Suffering, Evil.

I believe that the Story of the First Man and Woman, Adam a Eve, is used as a metaphor that speaks of the Evolution of the Psychic where the empirical mind and the Rational Mind to become One.

Mathematics dealing with fractions, Fractals, explains the relationship between the Two.
As long as the Numerator is not greater than the denominator, the whole fractal is Rational, should the numerator become greater than the denominator, the whole Fractal becomes Irrational.
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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?



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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?

Post Number:#2492  Postby Camalot15 » April 22nd, 2017, 3:41 pm

A robot cannot be the buddha and the buddha is the observer in the scientific sense of the word.
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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?

Post Number:#2493  Postby JamesOfSeattle » April 22nd, 2017, 11:15 pm

Why cannot a robot be the buddha?
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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?

Post Number:#2494  Postby Camalot15 » April 23rd, 2017, 2:32 am

Because the buddha exists as the you beond the bounds of c the speed of light. The buddha does not change as a part of the system of physics. A robot would remain in physics as a physical thing moving and changing. The observer exists out side physics as the looker.

-- Updated April 23rd, 2017, 2:51 am to add the following --

All though everything is the buddha the changing system is illusion realative to the observer (buddha). A robot cant be there for the observer buddha.
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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?

Post Number:#2495  Postby Belindi » April 23rd, 2017, 3:32 am

Yes, Wayne, reason is fallible but it's better than the alternatives.
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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?

Post Number:#2496  Postby Camalot15 » April 23rd, 2017, 7:52 am

The buddha without illusion is nolocality. The buddha within locality is the observer or unchanging thing within a system. Or the you in the system of change. A robot cannot there for be the you in a system.
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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?

Post Number:#2497  Postby Belindi » April 23rd, 2017, 8:39 am

Camalot15 wrote:The buddha without illusion is nolocality. The buddha within locality is the observer or unchanging thing within a system. Or the you in the system of change. A robot cannot there for be the you in a system.


Camalot, could you possibly say your meaning in scientific, or everyday, language?

Few people understand what you mean be "The buddha" , "nolocality" , "The buddha without illusion" , "the observer or unchanging thing", "the you", and "the you in the system of change" .


It would be nice to know what you mean. Maybe if you begin by defining "The buddha" it may be some help to those of us who are mystified by your use of English.
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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?

Post Number:#2498  Postby Camalot15 » April 23rd, 2017, 11:36 am

The buddha means the you that you were born as before it got the I as identity.

-- Updated April 23rd, 2017, 11:36 am to add the following --

The buddha means the you that you were born as before it got the I as identity.
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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?

Post Number:#2499  Postby Wayne92587 » April 23rd, 2017, 11:38 am

Belinda; I am heavy into Reason.

However, One must fear Rationalization, which is the source or Absolutely Bad Knowledge which is then often mistaken to be absolutely good knowledge, Knowledge having a dual quality, being the Knowledge of Good and Evil; Absolutely Bad Knowledge being an Abomination is just so much Babble, Hogwash, non-existent if not mistaken to be Absolutely Good a Knowledge, Evil.

The Rational Mind is created to be Mankind's, his and her, Helpmate, though is a little bias, leans, a little to the left.
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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?

Post Number:#2500  Postby Belindi » April 23rd, 2017, 4:00 pm

Wayne wrote:

I am heavy into Reason.

However, One must fear Rationalization,


I couldn't agree more. How might we avoid rationalising while preserving reasoning?

Can we post some examples of rationalising, and of reasoning?

One idea is that reasoning is predictive, while rationalising doesn't predict but only confabulates about the past.

-- Updated April 23rd, 2017, 4:14 pm to add the following --

However that idea doesn't always work, if for instance a historiographer is a bad or deliberately wicked historiographer they might rationalise instead of reason. Some histories are like this, notably those infamous attempts to airbrush the past for political gain.

Rationalising is often unreason as it confabulates about what has happened to oneself or to an acquaintance without sufficient knowledge or judgement.

Computers can be programmed so that they can rationalise about the past. They can also be programmed so that they can reason at least deductively, e.g. in chess. I doubt if computers can be programmed to use inductive and probabilistic predictions as the latter involve risktaking.
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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?

Post Number:#2501  Postby Wayne92587 » April 24th, 2017, 11:08 am

Belinda;
How might we avoid rationalising while preserving reasoning?


It is damn near impossible to avoid Rationalizing. A Rationalization being born of the Imagination, an Illusion of Reality.

An Illusion does not exist unless mistaken to be a Reality.

Solution; do not accept, believe that an Illusion is a Reality, that however is not to say that the possibility does not exist.

My best example is the Big Bang Theory; Many accept the Big Bang as being a Reality, not the Rationalization , theory, that it is.

A Rationalization is very Guileful because there is a great amount of truth in the formulation of the Theory of an Expanding Universe.

The proofs of an Expanding Universe, Red Shift, is offered up as Proof of an Expanding Universe; the Expanding Universe being offered up as Proof of the Theory of the Big Bang.

The Theory of the Big Bang was not formulated until after the "acceptance that the Theory of an Expanding Universe as being fact.

Redshift, the main evidence presented to prove that the Universe is expanding, which is the main proof of the Theory of the Big Bang.

Redshift is a fact, however Redshift does not prove that the Universe is expanding, was, is caused by the so called Big Bang.

There is, was, a huge demonstration in Washington touting the empirical evidence of Science, said demonstration being nothing more than a circle jerk.


Blasphemy, Hogwash, just so much Babble!

Theorize, conjecture, Speculate, Imagine, but do not believe what your eyes can not see is a Fact.

Not believing what your eyes can not see, meaning collect your know from many sources, not the Single source of knowledge Imagined to be the true source of Knowledge, the Rational Mind.

If thine single eye, thy mind's eye, be filled with darkness how great then is the Evil Within.

Rationalization, Guilefulness, is the Greatest Cause of all Unnecessary Suffering, is Evil.

-- Updated April 24th, 2017, 8:18 am to add the following --

Do not believe in the things that your eyes can not see, meaning that knowing must be glean from many sources, not the Single source of knowledge Imagined to be the true source of Knowledge, the Rational Mind.

If thine single eye, thy mind's eye, be filled with darkness how great then is the Evil Within.

Do not eat of the Fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, the Rational Mind, the Generator of Absolutely Bad Knowledge, Theory, Speculation, Conjecture.

The "Knowledge" of Reality is not Reality itself.
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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?

Post Number:#2502  Postby Camalot15 » April 24th, 2017, 2:10 pm

The buddha observer is the consciousness underlying the collapse of the wave function in quantum mechanics. Its the uncertainty in the buddha observer that collapses the probability wave into actuality
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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?

Post Number:#2503  Postby Belindi » April 25th, 2017, 11:24 am

Camalot15 wrote:The buddha means the you that you were born as before it got the I as identity.

-- Updated April 23rd, 2017, 11:36 am to add the following --

The buddha means the you that you were born as before it got the I as identity.



The period before you got the I as identity was approximately before you were two years old.

-- Updated April 25th, 2017, 11:28 am to add the following --

If you as an adult tried to live as if you lacked the feeling of being an individual you would die quite soon, or be placed in care.

I think that what you intend may be that it's beneficial at intervals to refresh oneself with the oceanic feeling of no personal identity.
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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?

Post Number:#2504  Postby Camalot15 » April 25th, 2017, 2:35 pm

Belindi you seem to understand. The origonal self before it gets event identity is the root self that cannot be exeeded. It is the unchanging unmoving buddha . But at the same moment a feeling just as you say. The observer is a feeling but of nothing.

-- Updated April 25th, 2017, 3:15 pm to add the following --

In fact the feeling of not understanding is the buddha observer.
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Re: Can a man-made computer become conscious?

Post Number:#2505  Postby Belindi » April 26th, 2017, 3:49 am

Camalot, "root identity" interests me. You seem to be saying that it's a good thing to understand that one is an object of one's own awareness, among other objects of awareness. I guess that most adults can do this cognitively, and that is what we call an objective point of view.

You seem however to be calling for something extra to the cognitive awareness, something which I call a feeling of being an object among other objects. I believe that it is possible to have that feeling, and that some sorts of meditation train the mind to have that feeling. However, ego is necessary for survival of the individual, and it would be important to recognise that the feeling must not be permanent.

The functioning android computer would have to have a self-protecting mechanism inbuilt, so that it doesn't rust, overheat, over extend, itself and so on. The practical problem is how to do this alongside making the android computer safe as a servant that will not become a master of biological people
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