What happens to us when we die?

Discuss any topics related to metaphysics (the philosophical study of the principles of reality) or epistemology (the philosophical study of knowledge) in this forum.
Post Reply
User avatar
Sy Borg
Site Admin
Posts: 14992
Joined: December 16th, 2013, 9:05 pm

Re: What happens to us when we die?

Post by Sy Borg »

Jan Sand wrote: March 3rd, 2018, 2:18 amI have never encountered a mind without a body so I have yet to be convinced of that existence.
You do so online regularly :)
Jan Sand
Posts: 658
Joined: September 10th, 2017, 11:57 am

Re: What happens to us when we die?

Post by Jan Sand »

Thats like saying a book has no writer or a recording has no musician.
User avatar
Sy Borg
Site Admin
Posts: 14992
Joined: December 16th, 2013, 9:05 pm

Re: What happens to us when we die?

Post by Sy Borg »

I'm not suggesting that disembodied minds go beyond the subjective experience of online interaction :)

I agree to some extent, although it depends on whether we perceive the body. Also, physical objects like books or recordings don't strike me as being analogous to minds. A bodiless mind seems more akin to the musical performance (that might be recorded) than the recording.
Jan Sand
Posts: 658
Joined: September 10th, 2017, 11:57 am

Re: What happens to us when we die?

Post by Jan Sand »

Digital communication is exactly similar to books or sound recordings and a human mind is guiding all of that. There are simulated people on the net but whatever mind they may exhibit is also a product of programmers who are alive minds. Digital independent thinking is, at the moment, still too totally primitive to be considered as conscious operatives.
User avatar
Sy Borg
Site Admin
Posts: 14992
Joined: December 16th, 2013, 9:05 pm

Re: What happens to us when we die?

Post by Sy Borg »

Jan Sand wrote: March 4th, 2018, 6:19 amDigital independent thinking is, at the moment, still too totally primitive to be considered as conscious operatives.
I have highlighted the key phrase above.
Jan Sand
Posts: 658
Joined: September 10th, 2017, 11:57 am

Re: What happens to us when we die?

Post by Jan Sand »

No need to emphasize that other possibilities exist. The relatively rapid progress in electronic innovation is quite impressive and if the insane geniuses succeed in replacing organic creatures with electronic imitations there will no doubt be a struggle for dominance and I have no idea what the outcome might be. I am old enough for the personal satisfaction of that conflict to arise long after I will be dead.
User avatar
Sy Borg
Site Admin
Posts: 14992
Joined: December 16th, 2013, 9:05 pm

Re: What happens to us when we die?

Post by Sy Borg »

A matter of "I'm alright, Jan", eh? First there will be melding. We are already somewhat melded to tech. That can only increase. Not sure what death will mean then; I suppose probably much the same as now in many ways.
Jan Sand
Posts: 658
Joined: September 10th, 2017, 11:57 am

Re: What happens to us when we die?

Post by Jan Sand »

Humans have been "melded" to technology ever since the first primate picked up a rock and threw it at somebody or something else. Neither squirrels or lions or octopuses throw rocks but are satisfied to use teeth or claws or tentacles. Seagulls are reputed to be quite clever with excrement and trigger fish make remarkable calculations with spitting but neither one has advanced to machine guns so we are relatively safe. More and more people are injured and killed by watching their cell phones instead of where they are walking and the delights of nuclear war may reveal tp people that melding may not be a bright idea.
chondriac
New Trial Member
Posts: 14
Joined: December 13th, 2017, 9:20 pm

Re: What happens to us when we die?

Post by chondriac »

Rocks don't run on machine code! Or maybe perhaps they run on tetravalent graphs.
User avatar
Sy Borg
Site Admin
Posts: 14992
Joined: December 16th, 2013, 9:05 pm

Re: What happens to us when we die?

Post by Sy Borg »

Jan Sand wrote: March 5th, 2018, 3:27 amHumans have been "melded" to technology ever since the first primate picked up a rock and threw it at somebody or something else. Neither squirrels or lions or octopuses throw rocks but are satisfied to use teeth or claws or tentacles.
Point taken - excellent!

Could the circle be turning? A bout 4bill years ago biology appeared - lithophiles that are rocks, increasingly turning rock into themselves. Then some of those lithotrophs started eating others rather than rocks, while the former continued to proliferate, converting ever more geology into biology (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElMqwgkXguw - I keep plugging this talk because it's my favourite and relevant to any thread about the phenomenon of life/biology IMO).

Some organisms, such as hermit crabs, would use the geology to act as a body part, while others would use rocks as tools. Eventually a hominid appeared that extended this idea further and increasingly shaped geology to "wear" as if they were hermit crabs creating their own designer shells. The hominids increasingly found different ways that geology could be shaped to achieve what biology could not. They found that they could not only replace their own body parts with such fashioned geology, those parts could be stronger and more capable than the originals.

They would increasingly carry a device with them for communication, entertainment and information accessing, gathering, storage and retrieval - information that was too plentiful or complex for storage in a biological brain. The devices became ever smaller to free up the hominids' hands and save effort, but this meant the devices could easily be broken, lost or stolen, and even temporary misplacement could be highly problematic in some circumstances.

Increasingly, the devices were implanted, and increasingly the integration of the implants became ever more seamless ... you know where this is going ...
chondriac wrote: March 5th, 2018, 5:43 pmRocks don't run on machine code! Or maybe perhaps they run on tetravalent graphs.
... but the machine that the code is a mix of various rocks put together and reconfigured.
Jan Sand
Posts: 658
Joined: September 10th, 2017, 11:57 am

Re: What happens to us when we die?

Post by Jan Sand »

To classify snail shells as rocks strikes me as most peculiar as if Michaelangelo's David were a geological formulation.

MICHELANGELO’S DAVID ON ALPHA CENTAURUS IV

Discovered several hundred thousand years
After life was found to be extinct
On the third planet from a nearby star,
The strange rock elicited curiosity, some fears.

One biologist theorized that it had been
A giant form of life, petrified. But samples
Had revealed no organic matter, nothing
To indicate this stone had felt biologic discipline.

A geologist had surmised the surface had been worn
By liquid water – an exotic fluid that, at one time,
May have been abundant on that odd planet,
A theory quite unique for such a place so forlorn.

Gazed upon from a special angle (perhaps the thought is mad),
This form could be imagined to have lived.
A foot, or something like a foot could be at one end
And opposite, could it be a head with eyes completely sad?
User avatar
Sy Borg
Site Admin
Posts: 14992
Joined: December 16th, 2013, 9:05 pm

Re: What happens to us when we die?

Post by Sy Borg »

Jan Sand wrote: March 5th, 2018, 11:29 pm To classify snail shells as rocks strikes me as most peculiar as if Michaelangelo's David were a geological formulation.
True Jan, and yes, David is a piece of geology. He sure isn't biological, or even organic.
Jan Sand
Posts: 658
Joined: September 10th, 2017, 11:57 am

Re: What happens to us when we die?

Post by Jan Sand »

On that judgement the Empire State building is a geological construction.
User avatar
Sy Borg
Site Admin
Posts: 14992
Joined: December 16th, 2013, 9:05 pm

Re: What happens to us when we die?

Post by Sy Borg »

That's what technology is at heart - reconfigured geology. At least it was until the expansion of the biotech field. Now it's just reconfigured matter.
Jan Sand
Posts: 658
Joined: September 10th, 2017, 11:57 am

Re: What happens to us when we die?

Post by Jan Sand »

But all human activity is reconfigured geological matter. Then the word "geology" becomes meaningless as a term distinguishing it from human activity.
Post Reply

Return to “Epistemology and Metaphysics”

2023/2024 Philosophy Books of the Month

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise
by John K Danenbarger
January 2023

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul
by Mitzi Perdue
February 2023

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness
by Chet Shupe
March 2023

The Unfakeable Code®

The Unfakeable Code®
by Tony Jeton Selimi
April 2023

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are
by Alan Watts
May 2023

Killing Abel

Killing Abel
by Michael Tieman
June 2023

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead
by E. Alan Fleischauer
July 2023

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough
by Mark Unger
August 2023

Predictably Irrational

Predictably Irrational
by Dan Ariely
September 2023

Artwords

Artwords
by Beatriz M. Robles
November 2023

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope
by Dr. Randy Ross
December 2023

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes
by Ali Master
February 2024

2022 Philosophy Books of the Month

Emotional Intelligence At Work

Emotional Intelligence At Work
by Richard M Contino & Penelope J Holt
January 2022

Free Will, Do You Have It?

Free Will, Do You Have It?
by Albertus Kral
February 2022

My Enemy in Vietnam

My Enemy in Vietnam
by Billy Springer
March 2022

2X2 on the Ark

2X2 on the Ark
by Mary J Giuffra, PhD
April 2022

The Maestro Monologue

The Maestro Monologue
by Rob White
May 2022

What Makes America Great

What Makes America Great
by Bob Dowell
June 2022

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!
by Jerry Durr
July 2022

Living in Color

Living in Color
by Mike Murphy
August 2022 (tentative)

The Not So Great American Novel

The Not So Great American Novel
by James E Doucette
September 2022

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches
by John N. (Jake) Ferris
October 2022

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All
by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
November 2022

The Smartest Person in the Room: The Root Cause and New Solution for Cybersecurity

The Smartest Person in the Room
by Christian Espinosa
December 2022

2021 Philosophy Books of the Month

The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God's Plan

The Biblical Clock
by Daniel Friedmann
March 2021

Wilderness Cry: A Scientific and Philosophical Approach to Understanding God and the Universe

Wilderness Cry
by Dr. Hilary L Hunt M.D.
April 2021

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute: Tools To Spark Your Dream And Ignite Your Follow-Through

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute
by Jeff Meyer
May 2021

Surviving the Business of Healthcare: Knowledge is Power

Surviving the Business of Healthcare
by Barbara Galutia Regis M.S. PA-C
June 2021

Winning the War on Cancer: The Epic Journey Towards a Natural Cure

Winning the War on Cancer
by Sylvie Beljanski
July 2021

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream
by Dr Frank L Douglas
August 2021

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts
by Mark L. Wdowiak
September 2021

The Preppers Medical Handbook

The Preppers Medical Handbook
by Dr. William W Forgey M.D.
October 2021

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress: A Practical Guide

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress
by Dr. Gustavo Kinrys, MD
November 2021

Dream For Peace: An Ambassador Memoir

Dream For Peace
by Dr. Ghoulem Berrah
December 2021