What happens to us when we die?

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Demystified
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Post by Demystified »

Believing in a afterlife is humans vain attempt at making themselves seperate and different from other animals or other living things making themselves believe that the universe has a special place in reserve for them while giving themselves a false sense of self privilege.

That right there is the basis of all religion.

It's the ultimate form of vanity as it is the ultimate form of self worship.
Abandon ye hope for none of it lives here.

“The state calls its own violence law, but that of the individual crime.”

- Max Stirner


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ChaoticMindSays
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Post by ChaoticMindSays »

"The holographic universe" Michael Talbot.
I would suggest this book to everybody, it is packed full of information relevant to this argument.
Persecrates
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Post by Persecrates »

Demystified wrote:Believing in a afterlife is humans vain attempt at making themselves seperate and different from other animals or other living things making themselves believe that the universe has a special place in reserve for them while giving themselves a false sense of self privilege.

That right there is the basis of all religion.

It's the ultimate form of vanity as it is the ultimate form of self worship.
Vanity or narcissism are not the cause for this belief.
Fear of ceasing to exist is. Vanity or narcissism are just psychological compensatory desires... of one's fear.

THIS is the basis for all religions.

This being said, it doesn't mean that the "soul"/spirit doesn't exist. That counsciousness is not eternal.
But it is be very impropabable that reality coincides with such a profound fear/desire.

I prefer: "When something's too good to be true... Well, it's because it is not true.". (Skepticism)

Rather than: "What I desire to be true is." (Relativism leaning towards psychosis)
Bookworm2000
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What happens when we die?

Post by Bookworm2000 »

Just two quick observations:
1) If something can happen once, it is very likely that it will happen again, if time will extend to infinity. That means our existence cannot just happen once. Given long enough time, we will exist again.
2) Immortality may not be such a good idea after all. It may be a curse disguised as a blessing. As someone put it, when asked if he wants to be alive again, "I am so lucky in this life that I have been able to avoid a lot of misfortune so far. I don't know if I am going to be as lucky if I am going to do it again, and again, and again..."
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Pathfinder
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Re: What happens when we die?

Post by Pathfinder »

Bookworm2000 wrote:Just two quick observations:
1) If something can happen once, it is very likely that it will happen again, if time will extend to infinity. That means our existence cannot just happen once. Given long enough time, we will exist again.
2) Immortality may not be such a good idea after all. It may be a curse disguised as a blessing. As someone put it, when asked if he wants to be alive again, "I am so lucky in this life that I have been able to avoid a lot of misfortune so far. I don't know if I am going to be as lucky if I am going to do it again, and again, and again..."

Congratulations! Here we have the true answer.

Although you are on right track, it is not a curse, Thot referred to it as the Darkness. However it is the design of the universe, a design that the human is evolving through, and though we are bound to the Darkness now, we will evolve into a stage where we no longer need to reincarnate.
An open mind means a willingness to reject what you previously thought may have been the truth.
Youngfool
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Re: What happens to us when we die?

Post by Youngfool »

Hello all;

I have had a near-death experience: I also understand that not all NDE's are exactly the same. However I did get to a threshold of exquisitely blissful peace. On that basis, I am quite sure that death is nothing to be afraid of.

But as to the question: I really don't know as obviously I did not "die" in the absolute sense.

I guess I will find out when I get there . . . .
johnwash24
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Re: What happens to us when we die?

Post by johnwash24 »

I think of myself as being a very logical and realistic person who doesn't believe in anything that defies the laws of physics, but recently I have been questioning this. Scott Peck points out Newton's gravitational theory only describes what happens, it doesn't really explain what gravitational force actually is.

When I consider this and Lummels study of OBE it seems to me that consciousness may well be able to exist outside of our bodies, and I am told that, even people who do not believe in an afterlife, sense that something spiritual has left the body after death. I certainly get a sense of the spirit of people I have loved continuing to exist in and around my own consciousness.

Perhaps these concepts only seem irrational only because we live in a culture that believes science holds all the answers and we have turned our back on the wisdom of the shamans and the aboriginal people.

I am interested to know what others think and feel about it all.
Groktruth
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Re: What happens to us when we die?

Post by Groktruth »

johnwash24 wrote:I think of myself as being a very logical and realistic person who doesn't believe in anything that defies the laws of physics, but recently I have been questioning this. Scott Peck points out Newton's gravitational theory only describes what happens, it doesn't really explain what gravitational force actually is.

When I consider this and Lummels study of OBE it seems to me that consciousness may well be able to exist outside of our bodies, and I am told that, even people who do not believe in an afterlife, sense that something spiritual has left the body after death. I certainly get a sense of the spirit of people I have loved continuing to exist in and around my own consciousness.

Perhaps these concepts only seem irrational only because we live in a culture that believes science holds all the answers and we have turned our back on the wisdom of the shamans and the aboriginal people.

I am interested to know what others think and feel about it all.
An old idea was that our souls were spiritual beings, that lived in our primate bodies, and had weight. Experiments weighing people when they died confirmed this. The people, supposedly with souls, lost weight, while the controls, dogs, did not. Now we know that stuff that has weight can, and someday will, fall into a black hole! The physicists asked about this often demurr from decribing what that would be like. Too horrible.

Classic example of the need to get the truth before the truth gets you.
Belinda
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Re: What happens to us when we die?

Post by Belinda »

Halloween is when we traditionally remember the dead. It's a pity that we should also become superstititous about their ghosts surviving when we would be better simply respecting their memories.
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Philosopher8659
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Re: What happens to us when we die?

Post by Philosopher8659 »

philoreaderguy wrote:What happens to us when we die? What do you think happens? What do you want to happen?
I wonder how is it, when we sometimes construct a sentence that due to the definition of the individual terms, we ask about a contradiction, we are wholly unaware of it. What I mean, we consider ourselves alive now, but how is that possible when we are often completely unaware of what we are doing?

Do we not rate a thing in accordance with the products it makes, and if it is not making a product, but making a mess, do we call it alive?
Groktruth
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Re: What happens to us when we die?

Post by Groktruth »

Philosopher8659 wrote:
philoreaderguy wrote:What happens to us when we die? What do you think happens? What do you want to happen?
I wonder how is it, when we sometimes construct a sentence that due to the definition of the individual terms, we ask about a contradiction, we are wholly unaware of it. What I mean, we consider ourselves alive now, but how is that possible when we are often completely unaware of what we are doing?

Do we not rate a thing in accordance with the products it makes, and if it is not making a product, but making a mess, do we call it alive?
"often completely unaware of what we are doing" may overstate the case. There are, I think, in every "life" moments of self-awareness, which if responded to can be increased. And, the definition of "die" has very complex history, as does the definition of "us."

So, I think the poster was inviting philosophers to clarify a popular inquiry. The inquiry as such a "baby" would indeed be all mess, yet still alive.
johnwash24
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Re: What happens to us when we die?

Post by johnwash24 »

I always loved that line from Tennyson 'when that which drew from out the boundless deep/Turns again home.

What happens when we die, well what happened before we were born - nothing - nothing - nothing- and its nothing to be scared of.

I still feel though that somehow our spirit joins our lost kin, and really that's all of humanity that has passed on. I just get a sense of the universal consciousness. Like a cloud of consciousness where we are all part of the same thing. Don't you sometimes think that the 'individualism' that is inherent on Western Society is somehow unnatural, and we are all really part of a greater humanity. Like when someone risks their life rescuing a person they don't even know and says after 'well there was no choice really' Its the love we have for all our brothers and sisters that gets crushed out of us in life is there after death.
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Muheli
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Re: What happens to us when we die?

Post by Muheli »

philoreaderguy wrote:What happens to us when we die? ...
I think it depends on how we define our selves. If our definition of self very closely approximates the state of our physical bodies when alive then as the body decays that which remains after death loses its ability to continue to resemble the self. If our definition of self considers that we can live on in our writings then, by definition, we live on. Our relationships can also be thought of as extending the realm of the self.

To the degree that we are a product of the experience we have in living within our bodies, there is a natural tendency to closely associate the self with the boundaries of the living body. But my body enables a mind which emerges to play a central role in my experience of self. That mind is also free to redefine the self in countless ways that are not limited to the boundaries of the physical body. That mind may even resent the physical body's tendency to associate strongly with the self or to metaphorically serve as a cage for the self. If we choose to define the self in this way, death can be thought of as the demise of the cage. If I choose this perspective then I can say that when my body's service is done I will cease to be separate from everything.

I have a huge choice in how I define my self. This choice may not change physical reality but it can certainly impact the narrative I choose for what happens to my self when my body dies.
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The Inquisitor
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Re: What happens to us when we die?

Post by The Inquisitor »

When we die, we simply "cease to be." Nothing more, nothing less.
Groktruth
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Re: What happens to us when we die?

Post by Groktruth »

The Inquisitor wrote:When we die, we simply "cease to be." Nothing more, nothing less.
Maybe. Maybe not. Your rather firm stance on the subject implies that you have some sure way of knowing, and our inclination as humans is to be swayed by such certainty. But I doubt that you have such a sure way on knowing, and I exhort all, unless you can present such, to resist such a response.

We all have a great amount to lose, and little to gain, by prematurely making up our minds about this. Wait, at least, until the results are in from the NDE studies, where those going on from death to some alternative universe, come back with information that is likely dependent on their actually making such a trip.

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/research11.html

The extensive anecdotal data support the "there is more, some good, some bad" idea. In state of the art Bayesian science, such makes the hypothesis much more plausible, even though the supporting data are anecdotal. But, this approach to science is curiously "controversial" although philosophically, it has by far the best track record. The argument that our efforts to get to the truth about this are under a disinformation assault from guardians of these alternative universes is therefore not all that implausible, once you get past the wishful thinking bias.

But, maybe, "hard" data will soon be forthcoming. Let us hope, maybe pray, that this is so.

I repeat, here more than anywhere else, you want to get the truth before the truth gets you.
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