A simple argument for the existence of mathematical objects

Discuss any topics related to metaphysics (the philosophical study of the principles of reality) or epistemology (the philosophical study of knowledge) in this forum.
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Prismatic
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Re: A simple argument for the existence of mathematical obje

Post by Prismatic »

Gulnara wrote: [quote="Prismatic"Of course I may be absolutely wrong, but I have a suspicion the reason we do not know which numbers will win the lottery is that they are chosen at random.
Math has nothing to do with lottery numbers. … Not everything is math that has numbers on it.[/quote]

I disagree. Math does have something to do with lottery numbers.

Take the California Lottery Mega Millions—the largest jackpot in the lottery. To win you must have picked six two digit numbers matching those drawn from the box. The total number of possibilities then is roughly 1012 = 1,000,000,000,000 = 1 trillion. Chances of winning are very, very small.
Everywhere I have sought peace and never found it except in a corner with a book. —Thomas à Kempis
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Gulnara
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Re: A simple argument for the existence of mathematical obje

Post by Gulnara »

"
Prismatic wrote:
Math has nothing to do with lottery numbers. … Not everything is math that has numbers on it.
"I disagree. Math does have something to do with lottery numbers.

Take the California Lottery Mega Millions—the largest jackpot in the lottery. To win you must have picked six two digit numbers matching those drawn from the box. The total number of possibilities then is roughly 1012 = 1,000,000,000,000 = 1 trillion. Chances of winning are very, very small.[/quote]
"""



Yes, it can tell us that winning is almost impossible. What we deal with in lottery is 36 or 53 balls or any other amount there is: numbers on them only depict amount of them, while one, two, three could be written in words, or in hieroglyphics , or balls could be all just of different color, or have faces of American presidents. When people start creating formulas, relations between numbers, like in math, it will not help to win. I am saying this because many people out there try to do just that. Stop waisting your time. Every game there is certain set amount of balls falling out; six, five, etc. If nothing is attached to them, no numbers or other identification, it is most boring thing in a world: six identical balls falling out every game. Only cats can enjoy it.

-- Updated Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:42 pm to add the following --

Also, similarly to lottery, if one man envisions dating , say, 36 women, and, say, dating 6 particular women among them can make him really rich ( while women keep it in secret), then he still has to date enormous amount of groups of women among those 36 to hit the winning combination. Dating women is more expensive than buying lottery tickets, plus each has her own character, etc. Thus, hitting perfect combination of women to date is a lot harder than winning lottery, in an abstract way, of course. In real life one would know if a woman is rich or not, or if he can love her or not, or if he's her type.
Wayne92587
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Re: A simple argument for the existence of mathematical obje

Post by Wayne92587 »

The lotto is random because no numbers are selected, the number is not revealed until after a random object, ball, has been chosen from a quantity of objects, balls, of which there is not differentiation.
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Fafner88
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Re: A simple argument for the existence of mathematical obje

Post by Fafner88 »

It's a not very persuasive argument. You can't derive a metaphysical conclusion form the superficial grammatical form of certain sentences. Even if we grant that mathematical propositions are true, it's still an open question how do we account for the status of their truth. Saying that numbers are real just as cats is one option, but by no means the only one, so your argument is question bagging.

Think of the Russellian analysis of negative existentials. If we take a sentence like "Pegasus doesn't exist" it may look on the superficial level as if it's about an object named 'Pegasus' which has the property of non-existence, but that's clearly an absurd claim. According to Russell, such a sentence should be analyzed not as a claim about a winged horse called Pegasus, but as a generalization which states that no existent object is such that it possess certain properties which are ascribed to Pegasus by the mythology. Similarly, even if we talk about numbers and say true things about them, it doesn't follow that we need to assume their existence in any metaphysical sense.
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Bohm2
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Re: A simple argument for the existence of mathematical obje

Post by Bohm2 »

The physicist, Max Tegmark is a big proponent of this view; that is, that our universe isn't just described by math, but that it is math in the sense that we're all parts of a giant mathematical object. So I think he goes further than other Platonists like Penrose whose model is attached below. Tegmark just published his new book "Our mathematical universe", which he discusses here:
All elementary particles, the building blocks of everything around, are purely mathematical objects in the sense that they don't have any properties except for mathematical properties. The same goes for the space that these particles are in, which has only mathematical properties--for example 3, the number of dimensions. If space is mathematical and everything in space is also mathematical, then the idea that everything is mathematical doesn't sound as crazy anymore.
Why a Larger Multiverse Shouldn't Make You Feel Small
http://www.fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/1947

I don't find either Tegmark's or even Penrose's argument convincing. I tend to see mathematical objects as mental stuff. As an example, I can't see how qualia can be fundamentally mathematical.
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Wayne92587
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Re: A simple argument for the existence of mathematical obje

Post by Wayne92587 »

A singularity of zero-0 is a qualia that can only be experienced by the mind, does not exist as an object, exists as nothing more than a subjective Reality; some might in conclusion, even speak of the qualia Singularity of Zero-0 as being a Zombie (The Living Dead).
Zombie not being a good metaphor for the likeness of a qualia, of a Singularity of Zero-0.

In order to understand the beginning of the Creation of the Universe, One must be able to go back to the beginning of differentiated Time, before the existence of the Space-Time Continuum, before the relativity of Time, Space and Motion, to the Event Horizon, prior to the Time that the Light was separated from the Darkness of non-existence, to a moment in Time in which only Qualia existed.

The omniscience of existence, being that of the Transcendental (Metaphysical) Fully Random State of Singularity in which existed of an untold quantity of Omnipresent Qualia Singularities of Zero-0 existed.

Numbers other than a qualia, Zero-0 exist, but are transitory, a singularity of two also being qualia, not being an object, being only the semblance of an object.

Qualia as a singularity of Zero-0 to be converted, without substantive change, into a singularity of One-1, an object; a singularity of One-1, becoming readily apparent, measurable as to location and momentum in Space-Time.

The inversion; the conversion of Nothing, of a Random Singularity of Zero-0 into something, a Singularity of One-1 for example, is accomplished by, though, a Metamorphosis, by way of a Transfiguration, rebirth, conversion.

A qualia Singularity of Zero-0 maintaining its Singularity after having been converted into a Singularity of One-1.

A singularity of One-1 however taking on the semblance of an object while at the same time also being a qualia; all numbers being a qualia while giving a numerical value to any number of objects.

-- Updated July 4th, 2016, 10:21 am to add the following --

Rather than saying that a qualia exists but that a Singularity of Zero-0 is not readily apparent, is not to go off the deep-end by calling it a Zombie. (the Living Dead.)

I believe that understanding the nature of Zero-0 a Singularity of Zero-0, that qualia would be better served if I simply said that a Quala,
a Singularity of Zero-0, being Infinite, that being an Infinitely Finite indivisible Singularity, not being measurable as to location and momentum (velocity of speed and direction) that a singularity of Zero-0, that qualia is simply Invisible.
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