Is Human Knowledge Limited by the Human Senses?

Wisdom would have taught to respond with silence or sound knowledge....

But you choose presumptions and insults...

The man can't help but be himself.

Hello Kess.

The owner of this web site has strongly recommended posters to use clarity in their posting so that others could know what was being said. This is something you have not shown as can be seen in the responses to your posts. What your purpose is I can not see unless you wish to be seen as very mystical. I welcome any contribution no matter wether I agree with it or not, but it needs to be understandable in order to have a dialog. This is were I see a lack of wisdom, for what is the use to others if there is no clarity. Or do you wish to be seen as the wise one occasionally tossing a scrap of wisdom from high in an ivory tower?

Regards, John.

John up to your last question to me, you have ask pertinent questions which were relevant to the post I have made. I my post were incomprehensible as you suggest, how then did you manage to ask such questions?

I did appreciate that at least someone was interested enough to make genuine enquiry and all my response were with the utmost of sincerity and with as much simplicity as I could manage.

Non the less I do understand the nature of the things I say and are aware, it is uncommon and goes against normal way of thinking.

And there is no way a mere statement from me can get you to hnderstand the fullness of the things I say.

For these things are learnt not by reading of writings but by observation first the man himself, and secondly life in general.

So I was taken aback when in your last post you chose to ridicule me in your response for it was unneccessary and indicated insincerity on your part.

Therefore ending what was until then a somewhat progressive conversation.

There is no need to engage me in conversation if you do not find any worth in the things I have said.

They belong to whom they belong and no one should feel the need to believe the things I have said.

Again disagreement is rampant in discussions here, and I have not posted anything to wilfully engage anyone in unneccessary debate.

Like I said there is no need for you nor anyone to point out my lack of wisdom, if it be so it will be made plain without imput from another.

Hello Kess.

Most of the posters including myself are versed in western ways of looking at life so someone posting ideas which are common in the eastern culture are alien to us. Just as me explaining to people in Abu Dhabi, were I was for a month, about winter here in Canada. It requires communicating a scenario to them which is hard for them to understand. So had you set the stage first so everyone knew in what framework you were posting, your cryptic remarks may have made sense, but instead you left us puzzled. It made it difficult to discern wether you were being a wise guy, or so smart that you were far above us. These ideas that you are trying to convey to us sounded like absolutes, and this guy is very wary of any absolutes, and your saying that those who do not follow the path you may still explain to us, are ignorant, is not received any better then you when I stated lack of wisdom. Familiarize us with your philosophy of life and let's start again.

Regards, John.

John, It is much easier for me to respond rather than initiate discussion. To be breif is to appear deliberately dubious and to be detailed is to appear deliberately confusing.

My thoughts incorporate both extremes, thus you are right when I speak of absolutes, for unless ones know himself as an absolute, he is one who wavers, constantly doubtful. The man who sticks to one view as oppose to the next, can be easily offended by the things I say. My goal is not to offend and if anyone is seeking justification he is already justified. But my experience is once a man takes offence it is difficult to stop and see that despite the seemingly offensive, I have also provided a way for his justification.

So it is imperative that a man do not compare the things I say to what others have said and hold as Truth, but compare with his own heart .

Obviusly this is not normal for intellectuals who determine facts by the opinions of others which they consider as proof. If a man understands himself, he would understand that ultimately he is the only proof of himself and his belief...and what so ever is true to him is absolutely true unless he begins to doubt himself.

My background is not eastern but western, I have had little experience with eastern culture and writings. Personally I have rejected the notion of reading to know about Life and living... Because writings decieves the man into thinking that the value is in the writing instead of the man. So I do just as I explained earlier, I go to the source of all knowledge, which is the heart of the man.

For ultimately I am the creator of myself, and my stand or my fall is up to me and any judgement I make of myself or another, it is a reflection of me.

So if I speak of absolute, I better be right otherwise I fail. This is how I live and can say to you it is will be exactly the same with you.

So while I do not make myself better than another, I still cannot make myself less than I am.

I donot care too much about conversing especially when a person is doubtful.

I am happy just to respond to what I think is genuine question and leave the answer to the heart of fhe reader to decipher...

Anyman who gives me the benefit of the doubt, gives themselves the opportunity to see where I am coming and where I am going...and they would agree not because I have said it but because they also know the same to be true.

I am not here to pat a man on his while je dies in his sleep.

My goal, which is also my message, Is the ultimate, which is to show the dead that they are Life that they will rise up and Live.

If he follows me, it means he must follow himself, and if he follows himself that also means he follow me....The reality of all being one.

So if the dead examines himself and accept that he is indead dead, then he lives because he accepted Truth for what it is.

Truth is the ultimate existence.

UniversalAlein wrote;

There would be a different cognitive process involved when AI begins to think for itself

Who or what is Al??

UniversalAlein wrote;

There would be a different cognitive process involved when AI begins to think for itself

Who or what is Al??

When I first mentioned AI {ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE} I did put the Artificial Intelligence in brackets. You may have missed it when skimming through the post. AI is a common abbreviation for artificial intelligence. There is sill an on going debate on whether computers will eventually be able to think in a conscious way as humans think. My point is based upon a speculative belief that AI {artificial intelligence / computers} will not only be able to think but that in many ways will be able to out-think humans {remember that computer that won against the World Chess Champion?}, but its thinking process will not be the same as human thinking processes - it will have 'a mind of its own' so to speak. Not only does this make for some real good Sci-Fy books and movies But I have read articles by computer scientists that already believe AI poses a real potential threat to humans. We do not know how a machine with a mind of its own might react to humans in the future but if we keep it under control and it stays friendly it may in fact extend human knowledge beyond the human senses and that is why I brought it up.

Hello Kess.

It has taken me a bit of time to answer because I wanted to give you a worthwhile reply, so I let it percolate in my mind. Before going into some detail, wether you continue on this website or not is totally up to you,but if you do I see a lot of frustration for you, because I understand that you have a certain life-view/religion/philosophy which you wish to share. Having been on this website for a while I have seen a lot of different life-views but really nothing new, all of them have been an existing one dressed up in modern dress, and all have been questioned as to being relevant. There are many skeptics like myself who will gladly shoot down any absolutes which can not be logically proven. Now other then like some practical ones, like our body's need for certain things in order to function, I am not aware of other absolutes which would not be attacked. You mention truth, but even truth is a very slippery concept, what is truth to you may not be so for me. You have mentioned not dying, but as far as I know all life has a beginning and an ending, at least in the physical sense, so I assume you believe that something remains when the physical stops functioning. If so then we would have to go into the meta-physical world to explore that concept. What I would suggest if you do wish to share your ideas, is to write it up, have a neutral person read it and suggest changes if needed for clarity, and post the whole on a website meant for something like this. That way you are then able to point others to it in order to get clarification, and you would not have to explain again and again.

Regards, John.

Hi John, I must apologise, for I misunderstood the nature of this website. So I would do the prudent thing and take my exit. I finally realise it is more of the nature of a religious organisation where naysayers of the core doctrines must be challenged and kicked out if neccessary by the elders. If I knew this before I would not have joined in the first place.

Skeptics are usually doubters who doubts just for the sake of it. They make sense only to themselves so therefore always hunts in packs. It is tedious to interact with skeptics for they thrive only on contention.

Thank you for your suggestion, but the script have already been written, and there are cannot ever be enough bytes on this entire that can contain it.

Fare ye well, for the most part you have been cordial.

Kess

Human Knowledge is not born of Mortal Man, a Humane Being more that a Mere Animal, Animal, Mortal, Man, Man born of Flesh and Bone being born of the dust of the ground, the Evolutionary Process.

Human Knowledge of Reality being born of a Single Source, Self, the Rational Mind, Human Knowledge being born of the wisdom of Immortal Man, Rational Man's Sixth Sense, thine Single Eye, the Mind's Eye, being the source of Human Knowledge.

-- Updated June 20th, 2012, 2:16 pm to add the following --

UniversalAlien

When I first mentioned AI {ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE} I did put the Artificial Intelligence in brackets.


When I read AL, I thought of Hal.

In the movie 2001 a Space Odyssey an Al, a computer named the Hal 9000 took control.

Wayne wrote:

Human Knowledge is not born of Mortal Man, a Humane Being more that a Mere Animal, Animal, Mortal, Man, Man born of Flesh and Bone being born of the dust of the ground, the Evolutionary Process. Human Knowledge of Reality being born of a Single Source, Self, the Rational Mind, Human Knowledge being born of the wisdom of Immortal Man, Rational Man's Sixth Sense, thine Single Eye, the Mind's Eye, being the source of Human Knowledge. [ end quote]

The above post has no clarity, no reasoning for the statements, so would it be possible to get something a person can chew on? It may hide a lot of wisdom, or be unreasoned wise-guy statements. at this time I can not tell.

Regards, John.

What do you think Human Knowledge is; Man has not always being a Humane Being; Man not being a Humane Being until he became Wise, a Rational Being.

This is as plain and simple as I can make it.

Did you even Know that the Word Human was originally spelled Humane; Man not only owing his Humanness, Humaneness, his Salvation but also his downfall to Knowledge born of the Single Source of Man’s sense of Reality, the Rational Mind.

The Knowledge of Reality as sensed by our Five Senses is not Human Knowledge; Human Knowledge being born of Reason, the Rational Mind, being Absolutely Bad Knowledge, Absolutely Bad Knowledge easily mistaken to be Absolutely Good Knowledge, Knowledge born of the Wisdom of the Rational Mind having the potential of being nothing more than a Rationalization, than Knowledge of a Reality that does not exist independent of our thoughts, our Ideas, our conjecture, speculation, theory, belief, concerning it.

You may need a little help to understand what is or is not a Reality is.

Reality according to Webster’s’; 1. the state or quality of being real. 2. resemblance to what is real. 3. a real thing or fact. 4. real things, facts, or events taken as a whole; state of affairs: the reality of the business world; vacationing to escape reality. 5. Philos. a. something that exists independently of ideas concerning it. b. something that exists independently of all other things and from which all other things derive. 6. something that is real. 7. something that constitutes a real or actual thing, as distinguished from something that is merely apparent. 8. in reality, in fact or truth; actually:

Man’s Knowledge of Reality being born of the Five Senses.

Human Knowledge being born or the Rational Mind.

Rationalization according to Webster’s;

—Usage. Although RATIONALIZE retains its principal 19th-century senses “to make conformable to reason” and “to treat in a rational manner,” 20th-century psychology has given it the now more common meaning “to ascribe (one's acts, opinions, etc.) to causes that seem reasonable but actually are unrelated to the true, possibly unconscious causes.”


Human Knowledge, Knowledge born of Wisdom of the Human, the Rational, Mind being conjecture, speculation, theory, is Absolutely Bad Knowledge, is not Knowledge of Reality born of the Five Senses, is the source of Guilefulness, Duplicity, Deception; Absolutely Bad Knowledge, Human Knowledge, Knowledge born of the Wisdom of the Rational Mind, Rationalization, easily mistaken to be Absolutely Good Knowledge, has a Dual Quality.

Hello Wayne, you wrote: Human Knowledge, Knowledge born of Wisdom of the Human, the Rational, Mind being conjecture, speculation, theory, is Absolutely Bad Knowledge, is not Knowledge of Reality born of the Five Senses, is the source of Guilefulness, Duplicity, Deception; Absolutely Bad Knowledge, Human Knowledge, Knowledge born of the Wisdom of the Rational Mind, Rationalization, easily mistaken to be Absolutely Good Knowledge, has a Dual Quality.[end quote]

Thank you for acting as a dictionary for me, however just to save you time, I have the Oxford Shorter and a complete Webster plus the internet and I use all of these on a regular basis. Now wether human came from humane has little importance today except that humane was not used as a noun and human originated from the latin humanus. I have a question about your use of capitals for certain words as if you give these special status, so please explain. The next problem I have is the relationship you indicate between knowledge and wisdom. I see knowledge and wisdom as separate, wisdom becoming possible after acquiring knowledge, but not the other way around. Then the phrase " Absolutely Good Knowledge" seems very presumptuous to me, simply because I do not think anyone would be able to really define such a concept.

By the way the quote I posted above says nothing to me, and I honestly do not know what you are trying to say, unless you are preparing us for some kind of "Ubermind".

Regards, John.

I will begin with;

No Human Knowledge is not limited by the Five Senses of Man born of the dust of the ground, the Evolutionary Process; Man is More than a Mere Animal, Man has the Abiliiy to become All Knowing, God Like, a Know-It-All.

If you think that my previous posts had no clarity, no reasoning for the statements, they not being something a person can chew on then I doubt this post will make any sense to you.

Oh Well! John wrote; Hello Wayne, you wrote: Human Knowledge, Knowledge born of Wisdom of the Human, the Rational, Mind being conjecture, speculation, theory, is Absolutely Bad Knowledge, is not Knowledge of Reality born of the Five Senses, is the source of Guilefulness, Duplicity, Deception; Absolutely Bad Knowledge, Human Knowledge, Knowledge born of the Wisdom of the Rational Mind, Rationalization, easily mistaken to be Absolutely Good Knowledge, has a Dual Quality.[end quote]

Thank you for acting as a dictionary for me, however just to save you time, I have the Oxford Shorter and a complete Webster plus the internet and I use all of these on a regular basis. Now wether human came from humane has little importance today except that humane was not used as a noun and human originated from the latin humanus. I have a question about your use of capitals for certain words as if you give these special status, so please explain. The next problem I have is the relationship you indicate between knowledge and wisdom. I see knowledge and wisdom as separate, wisdom becoming possible after acquiring knowledge, but not the other way around. Then the phrase “Absolutely Good Knowledge" seems very presumptuous to me, simply because I do not think anyone would be able to really define such a concept.

By the way the quote I posted above says nothing to me, and I honestly do not know what you are trying to say, unless you are preparing us for some kind of "Ubermind".

Regards, John.

First, thank you for your response!

Second, I need you to act as my dictionary; I could not find a definition of “Ubermind” in Webster’s Dictionary, nor at Wickipedia nor anywhere on the Internet, Please Define.

John wrote;

Thank you for acting as a dictionary for me, however just to save you time, I have the Oxford Shorter and a complete Webster plus the internet and I use all of these on a regular basis.

Wayne’s response;

I use the dictionary a lot simply because words have many meanings.

I used the dictionary in this particular post because of your response to my post # 55.


Post # 55 Human Knowledge is not born of Mortal Man, a Humane Being more that a Mere Animal, Animal, Mortal, Man, Man born of Flesh and Bone being born of the dust of the ground, the Evolutionary Process. Human Knowledge of Reality being born of a Single Source, Self, the Rational Mind, Human Knowledge being born of the wisdom of Immortal Man, Rational Man's Sixth Sense, thine Single Eye, the Mind's Eye, being the source of Human Knowledge. [ end quote]


John’s response;

The above post has no clarity, no reasoning for the statements, so would it be possible to get something a person can chew on? It may hide a lot of wisdom, or be unreasoned wise-guy statements. at this time I can not tell.

Wayne wrote; I do have a tendency to, by habit, to use to many capitals, however in the spoken word you have inflection in speech in order to emphasize a Point, I capitalize words that I think have a greater importance that simply being any old word in a sentence, I do however see where I used capitals way to many times in my first post.

Excerpts from several of Johns Posts;

John wrote;

The Buddha recognized a sixth sense, the mind, and this is the part of us which has not been explored very much, especially in the western world

You mention truth, but even truth is a very slippery concept, what is truth to you may not be so for me.

Wayne wrote;

As to the slippery Truth that you speak of, would you consider your truth to be Knowledge of the Truth. You may believe something is true that I do not believe is true, However the Truth is not what you or I believe that it to be, the Truth is the Truth.

As I see it, the truth that you mention above is born of Human Knowledge, Knowledge born of Reason, is a rationalization; the Rational Mind being the origin, the source of Buddha’s Sixth sense, the Mind’s Eye, the Evil Eye, Evil being being Guileful is born of Rationalization.

The word Rationalization is a good example why I used the dictionary in my post.


Rationalization according to Webster’s;

Usage. Although RATIONALIZE retains its principal 19th-century senses “to make conformable to reason” and “to treat in a rational manner,” 20th-century psychology has given it the now more common meaning “to ascribe (one's acts, opinions, etc.) to causes that seem reasonable but actually are unrelated to the true, possibly unconscious causes.”

I can not understand why you can not see that the Knowledge of the Truth if Truth is a personal belief you seem to believe it to be, is born of Rationalization, Knowledge, Human Knowledge, Knowledge born of Reason, Rationalization has the possibility of being Absolutely Bad Knowledge; the Absolute Truth, the Truth the Whole Truth and nothing but the Truth, not being born of Reason, not being a rationalization, being born of direct experience is Absolutely Good Knowledge,

One not having ability to Reason properly, resulting in Rationalization, causing man to live in a World of Illusion; the Truth being Truth, not being whatever you believe, reason, rationalize it to be.


Macuspcato wrote;

The title only asks, Is Knowledge limited by the Human Senses, and it is clear that the answer is yes, it is. That also does not mean that it is the only limitation. Your statement, "Exepting my own assertion that it is only our relatively short life spans that limits the totality of what we can know," is itself a dogmatic assertion that needs affirmative justification.


A mere animal is limited to the Five Senses in making sense of the World of Reality; Mortal, Animal Man, Man born of the dust of the ground, the Evolutionary Process, born of Flesh and Bone, being such a Creature.

The point being however is that man born of the dust of the ground was born premature, flawed, incomplete, was not born fully developed, was not born fully clothed, was born Naked, Bare-Ass-Naked, less than mere animal, Mortal man being born without specification, Man born of Flesh and Bone, the dust of the ground, the Evolutionary Process, being born to die, become extinct.

Here is the kicker, this is why I see it necessary to use the dictionary in some of my posts. Kicker; 2.Informal. a. a disadvantageous point or circumstance, usually concealed or unnoticed: The tickets are free, but the kicker is that you have to wait in line for hours to get them. b. a surprising change or turn of events: The kicker was that their friends knew it before they did. 3. something extra, as an additional cost or gain; an added expense or financial incentive. 11. Also called kickÆer lightÅ. Photog. a light source coming from the back and side of a subject and producing a highlight.

Man has a Kicker, Man born of the Evolutionary Process, Man bound to the Realty of cause and effect, man born bare, less than a mere animal, without specification, has so much room for improvement, that man is Free, is unlimited, is boundless, Free to become more than a mere Animal, Man’s Sixth Sense, Rational Mind Properly conditioned providing Man with the ability to become all Knowing, God Like.

Problem! Not properly conditioned, the Rational Mind, due to improper Rationalization, will Create a World of Illusion, Man’s Human Knowledge of Reality, Knowledge born of Reason, the Rational Mind, born of Rationalization being Duplicitous, Guileful, Man becoming a Know-It-All resulting in whatever Human Knowledge, Knowledge born of Rationalization, comes to the Human mind being the Truth, Absolutely Good Knowledge, said Knowledge, Absolutely Bad Knowledge having a Dual Quality, being Guileful.

Man was not born a Rational Being, Man’s Sixth Sense, the Rational Mind properly Conditioned, being Mankind’s Savior, Salvation.

Human Knowledge, Humane Knowledge, Knowledge born of Reason, knowledge that is not born of the direct experiences of the Flesh Body, the Five Senses; Compassion, Humaneness being a Creation, being born of the Rational Mind, being a Rationalization.

Ninety Nine percent of every creation that has ever existed on the Planet Earth is now Extinct; mainly due to competition within the Species; competition within a species, the need to fight the battle for the survival of the most fit, not allowing for Compassion.

If Man as Species is to Survive mankind must become more than a mere animal, Man must find a way to go beyond where the ordinary Evolutionary Process has taken him, Man must become Wise, All-Knowing, God Like, Man must stand up for himself as an Individuality while at the same time being compassionate towards his fellow man


Here’s the a kicker, Man has been blind sided by Feminine Wile, the Great Femininity, Man’s Helpmate, source, the origin of Mankind’s compassion being man’s Salvation, Savior.

Hi Wayne.

Ubermind as such is not a word, it is the combination of uber and mind, and as such is in my Oxford Shorter. Uber denoting the ultimate in something such as uberbabe,ubergeek,ubermodel. Origimally it came from the German word Ubermensch, meaning ultimate human.


As to the rest of what you have written, we are so far apart that I think it pointless to have any farther debate with you.

Regards, John.