Belinda wrote:Higgs makes finite out of infinite. Is there then something of infinite which remains after Higgs bosons? I mean, is there sufficient of Higgs bosons to deal with the whole of infinite possibilities, or is 'the whole of infinite' an oxymoron because infinity cannot be whole?
I wouldn't quite put it that way, Belinda. I would say that only finite things are real, therefore, if something has an infinite velocity, it cannot be real, because velocity is one of its properties. By changing the properties of that thing so that the velocity is finite, it can be real.
-- Updated July 11th, 2012, 3:25 pm to add the following --
Stormy wrote:It would make me believe that dark energy is the enforcer here..if you consider infinity like a simple tape, every now and then Dark Energy puts the brakes on the tape as though to allow the Higgs to gather information together for Dark Matter to make real. The brakes on infinity make space creating time for speed to create enough energy to matter, and therefore become real within the observed laws of physics. (reality) Infinity..or dream world probably collects its own thoughts this way..I guess you could say reality is the amplification made permanent from what is really going on, which physics is unable to measure. If they ever get to a Black Hole, my guess is it is an entrance to real time, Infinity itself.
I'm not sure I know enough about Dark Energy or Dark Matter to take a position on its relation to this area of physics. That said, Describing infinity "like a simple tape" doesn't work. The infinite, as a physical entity would have infinite values describing infinite dimensions containing infinite features. The infinite would contain all possible features, some infinite, some finite and some with a combination of finite and infinite features. Only finite things are real. Higgs would allow a subset of the third category (those finite features with infinite velocity) to become finite, and therefore real.
-- Updated July 11th, 2012, 3:28 pm to add the following --
Stormy wrote:If they ever get to a Black Hole, my guess is it is an entrance to real time, Infinity itself.
I think that a Black hole is actually a finite entity. It appears infinite, because the values that describe it are so massive, they cannot be related to other things. The fact that they evaporate over time, supports this idea.
-- Updated July 11th, 2012, 4:03 pm to add the following --
Xris wrote:When science becomes religiously motivated we should all be scared.
I agree, but I don't think that has happened here. Are you alluding to the term "God particle"? If so, I think it should be taken in the sense that the higgs field/boson are what allowed mass to arise, and therefore, could be seen as playing the part of God in Genesis. It's my understanding that the scientist who coined it has regretted it ever since.
Xris wrote:There has been more proof of yetis or loch Ness monsters than this magical particle that now appears to be a field.
I disagree. The Higgs boson is predicted by the "standard model" of physics. There is a lot of evidence to support its predictions. This is just a little more.
Xris wrote:A field of what exactly? We have become the inventors of myths and legends were invisible black holes are as certain as the sky and big big bangs that infest every philosophical subject like the plague on a dead mans shroud.We appear to be entering a new wondrous age were science fails so imagination and invention become the norm. Madness appears before us like a devoted congregation that has received the message of the lord.Alleluia brothers alleluia
I love your imagery so much, I don't want to disagree with you
I must, however, do so. The difference between a myth or legend and science is that one is static and one is subject to a continuous process of revision. Science is a product of the interplay between theory and observation. Since new observations continuously occur, a scientific theory can be challenged and revised at any time. A legend or myth is just a story. That's not to say they are rooted in fact, but they are not scientific in that they are not the product of the scientific process.
It is not reasonable, and I think most physicists would agree with me, to say that the existence of black holes is as certain as the existence of the sky. First of all, the sky is a feature of the Earth, therefore, it is easily observable by anyone on Earth. Since black holes are theorized to exist far away from here, the evidence of their existence is much more difficult since observing them is more difficult.
I'm not sure I understand your point regarding invention and madness and imagination, but please posting!
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Grecorivera5150 wrote:There may not have been a big bang as there may not be a god. There are both negative and positive possible outcomes of both religion and scientism. This is primarily the discussion I wanted to attempt to engage in in this thread. What can we expect as far as momentum or inertia of public policy or private funding with this new information? What will be an acceptable level of investment from public coffers if any? Should these studies now be held up to greater scrutiny by governing bodies due to the potential Pandora's box affect?
I don't think "scientism" is a thing.
This will probably have a minimal effect on public policy and a positive one. The public would have perceived not finding the Higgs as a failure, fairly or not. The fact that they did find it will be seen as a success by some.
What do you mean by "greater" scrutiny? Greater than what?