Ignorance vs. Wisdom

Discuss any topics related to metaphysics (the philosophical study of the principles of reality) or epistemology (the philosophical study of knowledge) in this forum.
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UniversalAlien
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Re: Ignorance vs. Wisdom

Post by UniversalAlien » October 14th, 2012, 7:01 pm

Quizzical18 wrote:We've all heard the phrase "Ignorance is bliss". That can be a valid statement if the ignorance is not harming you but if that phrase is true, then what is the point of finding wisdom (especially when that wisdom takes you out of the "Ignorant comfort zone" and into a harsher reality)? Is blissful ignorance really better than the inconvenient truth? If so, then why are we trying to find it? What's the goal? Why should we try to know if not knowing is better? :?
Interesting. In some Eastern philosophies and/or religions clearing the mind to a state of ignorance is part of obtaining both wisdom and bliss. The Zen doctrine of no mind for example; and also espoused in the practice of Taoism and for that matter many other forms of meditation. The idea here is that what we consider to be our intelligent mind might not be as intelligent as we think and in fact might be a hindrance to true wisdom and intelligence. Colloquially stated sometimes we must realize how dumb we are if we are ever to have any hope of achieving wisdom.

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Re: Ignorance vs. Wisdom

Post by Somthingsucantunfund » October 14th, 2012, 7:29 pm

We've all heard the phrase "Ignorance is bliss". That can be a valid statement if the ignorance is not harming you but if that phrase is true, then what is the point of finding wisdom (especially when that wisdom takes you out of the "Ignorant comfort zone" and into a harsher reality)? Is blissful ignorance really better than the inconvenient truth? If so, then why are we trying to find it? What's the goal? Why should we try to know if not knowing is better?
I am not going to turn this into an argument about truth, but when I first began participating in online philosophy discussions, I was drawn into a discussion that asked "How do we know the truth?" and basically the answer was "we experience it." I think it is very valid in this discussion, because let's face it, once you know you can never go back. But damn, wouldn't it be nice not to know. Because knowing implies a responsibility to the knower. What you do with the knowledge becomes the question of ethics, and what you do will tell us who you are. If we know what you do...
"I never call anything ugly. I never call anything strange and alone. I never want to, take [deep] things lightly, Like they have never been my own..." Tanita Takiram

Kellcat13
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Re: Ignorance vs. Wisdom

Post by Kellcat13 » October 15th, 2012, 1:19 pm

Ignorance may very well be bliss. For instance, a man is madly in love with his wife. She has a one night stand but never tells him. She regrets it very much and works even harder on their relationship, resulting in a very happy marriage.

Pages
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Re: Ignorance vs. Wisdom

Post by Pages » October 16th, 2012, 7:29 am

Quizzical18 wrote:We've all heard the phrase "Ignorance is bliss". That can be a valid statement if the ignorance is not harming you but if that phrase is true, then what is the point of finding wisdom (especially when that wisdom takes you out of the "Ignorant comfort zone" and into a harsher reality)? Is blissful ignorance really better than the inconvenient truth? If so, then why are we trying to find it? What's the goal? Why should we try to know if not knowing is better? :?
I always think that quote "ignorance is bliss" is unthoughtful. Here is what I think it means: For example if a group of people in a community die of HIV, and they took it as a natural cause, adapt to the reality of that particular death way, because its pointless bothering yourself about what you cannot do anything about, and they find happiness in that way, It will be better for them to not know it isn't natural, that it is caused because if they found out it would shift their perspective on how they view the situation. If they find out it could be prevented and can be cured, that will bring worries to know the fact that you can do something to prevent your loved one from dying and you still let them die. That would not be comfortable.

I think the quote is incomplete. It should be, "ignorance is bliss, but knowledge is better". that way people will understand it more.

Then again, addressing the quote, ignorance is not bliss as long as discoveries exist, as long as the human brain desires to know the truth, as long as the truth keeps shifting and hiding behind endless (yet) black holes as defense mechanisms. So with this fact, does the phrase "ignorant is bliss" still stand? Of course not. If the hunger for endless knowledge is the major attribute of the brain then, ignorant is not bliss. So the phrase fails on a more wider thoughtful base.

logically,

Ignoance is lack of knowledge, The mind is an existence responsible for ones thought, Thought means the content of cognition, Cognition is the process of knowing, Knowing/knowledge is the major attribute of the mind, The mind is not in a normal state ignorantly, Happiness can only be considered when the mind is in its normal functional state, Happiness is having a feeling arising from consciousness of well-being and contentment, Ignorance does not content the mind, That is, Ignorance does not make the mind happy, Bliss means perfect happiness or joy, Therefore, Ignorance is not bliss.
Two possibilities exist... Either we are alone in the universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying.
- Arthur C. Clarke

Kellcat13
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Re: Ignorance vs. Wisdom

Post by Kellcat13 » October 16th, 2012, 12:46 pm

I always think that quote "ignorance is bliss" is unthoughtful. Here is what I think it means: For example if a group of people in a community die of HIV, and they took it as a natural cause, adapt to the reality of that particular death way, because its pointless bothering yourself about what you cannot do anything about, and they find happiness in that way, It will be better for them to not know it isn't natural, that it is caused because if they found out it would shift their perspective on how they view the situation. If they find out it could be prevented and can be cured, that will bring worries to know the fact that you can do something to prevent your loved one from dying and you still let them die. That would not be comfortable.

I think the quote is incomplete. It should be, "ignorance is bliss, but knowledge is better". that way people will understand it more.

Then again, addressing the quote, ignorance is not bliss as long as discoveries exist, as long as the human brain desires to know the truth, as long as the truth keeps shifting and hiding behind endless (yet) black holes as defense mechanisms. So with this fact, does the phrase "ignorant is bliss" still stand? Of course not. If the hunger for endless knowledge is the major attribute of the brain then, ignorant is not bliss. So the phrase fails on a more wider thoughtful base.

logically,

Ignoance is lack of knowledge, The mind is an existence responsible for ones thought, Thought means the content of cognition, Cognition is the process of knowing, Knowing/knowledge is the major attribute of the mind, The mind is not in a normal state ignorantly, Happiness can only be considered when the mind is in its normal functional state, Happiness is having a feeling arising from consciousness of well-being and contentment, Ignorance does not content the mind, That is, Ignorance does not make the mind happy, Bliss means perfect happiness or joy, Therefore, Ignorance is not bliss.
I get what you are saying--"Ignorance is bliss, but knowledge is better"-- but do you have proof that knowledge is better than bliss?

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Re: Ignorance vs. Wisdom

Post by Pages » October 16th, 2012, 3:59 pm

Kellcat13 wrote:I get what you are saying--"Ignorance is bliss, but knowledge is better"-- but do you have proof that knowledge is better than bliss?
My conclusion said, "ignorance is not bliss." I said to prepare the dish well to get ready for munching, it should be rephrased as "ignorance is bliss but, knowledge is better." I didn't mean to mean it like you took it. Ignorance and knowledge are two extremes that hold a very impressive percentage of what they express. They are two different things on a different line. They cannot be related enough for one to be better than the other.

Maybe I shouldn't have wrote that. Ignore that line please... It was a result of pre-thinking.

Goes to everyone else... Ignore the line because I can't edit it.
Two possibilities exist... Either we are alone in the universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying.
- Arthur C. Clarke

Nick_A
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Re: Ignorance vs. Wisdom

Post by Nick_A » January 28th, 2017, 4:14 pm

Quizzical18 wrote:We've all heard the phrase "Ignorance is bliss". That can be a valid statement if the ignorance is not harming you but if that phrase is true, then what is the point of finding wisdom (especially when that wisdom takes you out of the "Ignorant comfort zone" and into a harsher reality)? Is blissful ignorance really better than the inconvenient truth? If so, then why are we trying to find it? What's the goal? Why should we try to know if not knowing is better? :?
If a person wants to become recognized as a genuine expert, they will have to acquire degrees in reputable educational institutions sufficient that the value of "ignorance is bliss" is ingrained in the marrow of their bones.

“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.”
― Daniel J. Boorstin
“To know that you do not know is the best.
To think you know when you do not is a disease.
Recognizing this disease as a disease is to be free of it.”
― Lao Tzu
“I examined the poets, and I look on them as people whose talent overawes both themselves and others, people who present themselves as wise men and are taken as such, when they are nothing of the sort.
From poets, I moved to artists. No one was more ignorant about the arts than I; no one was more convinced that artists possessed really beautiful secrets. However, I noticed that their condition was no better than that of the poets and that both of them have the same misconceptions. Because the most skillful among them excel in their specialty, they look upon themselves as the wisest of men. In my eyes, this presumption completely tarnished their knowledge. As a result, putting myself in the place of the oracle and asking myself what I would prefer to be — what I was or what they were, to know what they have learned or to know that I know nothing — I replied to myself and to the god: I wish to remain who I am.

We do not know — neither the sophists, nor the orators, nor the artists, nor I— what the True, the Good, and the Beautiful are. But there is this difference between us: although these people know nothing, they all believe they know something; whereas, I, if I know nothing, at least have no doubts about it. As a result, all this superiority in wisdom which the oracle has attributed to me reduces itself to the single point that I am strongly convinced that I am ignorant of what I do not know.” ― Socrates
All this is very old fashioned. Once we are educated properly ignorance will just be a sad memory. You know nothing so just believe the experts. They will offer you the new understanding and you will come to see that freedom is actually slavery and ignorance is strength. Then you will be truly educated and be perfectly acceptable in the modern world.
“War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength.”
― George Orwell, 1984
Man would like to be an egoist and cannot. This is the most striking characteristic of his wretchedness and the source of his greatness." Simone Weil....Gravity and Grace

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LuckyR
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Re: Ignorance vs. Wisdom

Post by LuckyR » January 29th, 2017, 12:01 am

Both the above post and the OP accept the original premise that "bliss" is a good thing. In the original quote bliss is a lack of concern or worry about unknown issues. While we can all appreciate that there are negatives associated with worry and concern, even a simpleton can appreciate that it is a better ballgame when there is a real chance that your hometown favorite could lose, but they win at the last moment as opposed to a blowout game where they run way, way ahead throughout the contest. Thus worry and concern (in this example about a loss) is not inherently negative and can reasonably expected to be a positive. Therefore the "bliss" cited in the OP is not a positive and is usually a negative. Since the word "bliss" can have conflicting meanings (as demonstrated by this thread) a better quote would be: "ignorance is boring".
"As usual... it depends."

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Maffei
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Re: Ignorance vs. Wisdom

Post by Maffei » October 6th, 2017, 9:44 am

a) Hypothesis 1: Ignorance is bliss because knowledge is unpleaseant

In this the statement "ignorance is bliss" is only valid if knowledge itself is perceived as an unpleasant process.

I do not think we can justify that the consequences of knowing are unpleasant, because if you have a certain conduct when you were ignorant, the mere fact of knowing other perspectives of that conduct will not keep you from continuing in it. What changes is that now this conduct will have a greater degree of reason and the subject will have a greater role in his own conduct. For this, though, you have to like to know more and enjoy the most decisions you know. But if you can not advance the barrier of not knowing, you won't appreciate this journey.

b) Hypothesis 2: Ignorance is bliss because of the love of knowledge

When Julio Sanchez says that ignorance can only be a gift in the sense of seeing it, I understand that this is a perspective in which knowledge is the highest value of all, because ignorance is within the set of things that we can know. Philosophy seems to point out that ignorance is the very starting point of knowing and, who knows, also its point of arrival.

It seems to me that not everyone accepts this typically philosophical approach, especially those who are more adept at the knowledge characteristic of science, who can not accept unknowing. I find it curious because this seems more of an emotional inability to deal with uncertainty. This inability is very much like that of the religious who bother with those who question their beliefs. Scientists just want to prove their point, they do not want to know themselves or know why they want to prove that point.

That's why I would really need a lot of love of knowledge to feel blissful because of ignorance.

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Re: Ignorance vs. Wisdom

Post by Namelesss » November 18th, 2017, 9:38 pm

Quizzical18 wrote:We've all heard the phrase "Ignorance is bliss". That can be a valid statement if the ignorance is not harming you but if that phrase is true, then what is the point of finding wisdom (especially when that wisdom takes you out of the "Ignorant comfort zone" and into a harsher reality)? Is blissful ignorance really better than the inconvenient truth? If so, then why are we trying to find it? What's the goal? Why should we try to know if not knowing is better? :?
Definition time;

The new, critically updated, all inclusive, Universal definition of 'Knowledge';

"'Knowledge' is 'that which is perceived', Here! Now!!"

All inclusive!

That which is perceived by the unique individual Perspective is 'knowledge'.
All we can 'know' is what we perceive, Now! and Now! and Now!!!

'Ignorance' is that which is NOT perceived, at any particular moment, by any particular unique Perspective! Here! Now!

Standing in the road, unaware of the oncoming truck is Bliss. As soon as you 'experience' that truck, the ignorance vanishes and becomes painful Knowledge! Get it?
All ignorance is Blissful! Not all Knowledge is painful.

None of this relates to 'Wisdom', which seems to exist, like Beauty, Art and Music, in the eye of the beholder!

You can no more 'vs' Wisdom and Ignorance than apples and railroad ties!

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Re: Ignorance vs. Wisdom

Post by Freudian Monkey » December 8th, 2017, 5:12 am

Ignorance is bliss if pleasure and comfort is the goal. If the goal is to be in control and to obtain Power, ignorance is very counterproductive.


Join the discussion about Power and the meaning of life here:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=15226

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