The Immorality of Collective Authority

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The Immorality of Collective Authority

Post Number:#1  Postby Synthesis » August 10th, 2017, 1:32 pm

Collective authority, commonly referred to as, "a group," is/has been the source of nearly all dis-content in society. The reason for this is fairly straight-forward. If you can agree that compassion is that quality that makes us truly human [in the best sense of the word], then this manifestation can only arise in the individual, and never in the group. The group is simply a mechanism to collect power to be used over individuals, and little else.

It shouldn't take a great deal of analysis to discover the above, and sure enough, this has been known forever [more or less]. The question is, why is it tolerated, to the point where the three greatest institutions ever created, religion, government, and [of late] corporations have been the predominant seats of power for millennia?

The immorality lies in that those who occupy the upper echelons within these institutions do so because they precisely understand the above premise. Instead of working to attenuate the tendencies for these institutions to abuse their powers, they cultivate the very same into the creation of vile behemoths that, on the whole, create massive systemic dys-function for the many, and lives a great luxury for themselves.

Of course, some of the most highly paid members of the administrative class, viz., professional class, are the rationalizers, those people whose job it is to tell the masses that although things are pretty crazy out there, be happy you have your cheap fast food, smart devices, unlimited porn and sports, and two day free-shipping, because this is all that really matters.
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The Immorality of Collective Authority



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Re: The Immorality of Collective Authority

Post Number:#2  Postby Steve3007 » August 10th, 2017, 2:08 pm

Synthesis:

Do you make your own clothes, grow your own food and build your own house? If not, I assume that you can see the benefit of humans living in societies in which each person has a specialism and trades the fruits of that specialism with other specialists.

How do you propose societies like ours ought to avoid the evils that you think you have identified? If you were in a position of political power, what legislation would you seek to pass to achieve this?
"Even men with steel hearts love to see a dog on the pitch."
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Re: The Immorality of Collective Authority

Post Number:#3  Postby Synthesis » August 11th, 2017, 1:43 pm

Steve3007 wrote:Synthesis:

Do you make your own clothes, grow your own food and build your own house? If not, I assume that you can see the benefit of humans living in societies in which each person has a specialism and trades the fruits of that specialism with other specialists.

How do you propose societies like ours ought to avoid the evils that you think you have identified? If you were in a position of political power, what legislation would you seek to pass to achieve this?

The point is that groups need to be kept under control, the smaller the better. Once they begin to grow, all hell [inevitably] breaks loose.


Insanity in individuals is something rare - but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule.
Friedrich Nietzsche
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Re: The Immorality of Collective Authority

Post Number:#4  Postby LuckyR » August 12th, 2017, 12:46 am

Synthesis wrote:
Steve3007 wrote:Synthesis:

Do you make your own clothes, grow your own food and build your own house? If not, I assume that you can see the benefit of humans living in societies in which each person has a specialism and trades the fruits of that specialism with other specialists.

How do you propose societies like ours ought to avoid the evils that you think you have identified? If you were in a position of political power, what legislation would you seek to pass to achieve this?

The point is that groups need to be kept under control, the smaller the better. Once they begin to grow, all hell [inevitably] breaks loose.


Insanity in individuals is something rare - but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule.
Friedrich Nietzsche


Under control by whom? The individuals, or a different group?
"As usual... it depends."
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Re: The Immorality of Collective Authority

Post Number:#5  Postby Alias » August 12th, 2017, 1:13 am

I suspect Synthesis means for individuals to be wary of group involvement, to limit their dependency on a group; to on guard against its power.
It's quite true that a group takes on a character distinct from each of the individuals that comprise it - and that character is both more than a single person (more decisive, more potent, more certain, more purposeful) and less (simpler, dumber, less capable of assessing situations and responding appropriately).
It's quite true that acceptance by and belonging to a group can be compelling motivations that override judgment and scruples.
It's quite true that the larger the group, the less each individual voice can be in its clamour - and the less responsibility each individual bears for its united actions.

The larger and more 'civilized' the group, the less autonomy it allows each individual member, in self-sufficiency, in relating to the world and in thought.
So, if you're a member of a large, sophisticated urban society, you have very little opportunity to grow your own food and make your own clothes, never mind build your house.
And that can cause serious psychological problems.
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Re: The Immorality of Collective Authority

Post Number:#6  Postby -1- » August 12th, 2017, 7:17 am

I think the idea is to strive for becoming the sole and ultimate ruler of the group.

Why grumble? become the top alpha person instead, and then do what the masses really want. That's your ticket.

What do the masses really want? That is your next million dollar question. Personally I am semi-happy with free unlimited porn fast food I can afford, and air conditioning in the heat of the summer. I won't even insist on under-two-day delivery. The only thing that could top all that, at least for me, would be an on-demand supply of gorgeous buxom blondes who could converse competitively on philosophical topics and be unbelievably uninhibited in their fervent desire for me.
Sweat the small stuff... because then the big stuff will take care of itself.
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Re: The Immorality of Collective Authority

Post Number:#7  Postby Synthesis » August 12th, 2017, 12:24 pm

LuckyR wrote:
Under control by whom? The individuals, or a different group?

This is what the Founding Fathers understood, that you must severely limit the power of groups. This is why this country flourished [for the individual (white, male, landowner, anyway)] for as long as it did [through the end of the 19th century]. Bring on BIG government and corporations in the early 20th century and look at things fall apart for most all Americans. For example, corporations used to be all non-profit with charters revocable after 10 years. They understood!

So do we. Unfortunately, the greed-beast has been let loose once again. This is what happens when you allow the weakest among us control everything.
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Re: The Immorality of Collective Authority

Post Number:#8  Postby Steve3007 » August 12th, 2017, 12:46 pm

Synthesis:
The point is that groups need to be kept under control, the smaller the better. Once they begin to grow, all hell [inevitably] breaks loose.


I'm afraid this is too vague to mean anything at all. What legislation are you going to pass, that doesn't already exist, to limit the size of private companies?
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Re: The Immorality of Collective Authority

Post Number:#9  Postby -1- » August 12th, 2017, 1:13 pm

Steve3007 wrote:I'm afraid this is too vague to mean anything at all. What legislation are you going to pass, that doesn't already exist, to limit the size of private companies?

don't also forget the publicly held companies, and utilities, government services, the FBI, the CIA, the RIS, the IRS, etc. etc. Police forces, universities, trade unions, subscriber-owned life insurance companies, etc.

And if we have to go to war over this... who says, who will decide how to divvy up the armed forces to the parties interested in war? After all, the military is publicly owned, and no one or the other side in a civil war has the outright right to own it. Plus the size of the army fraction (and navy, and air force) has to be limited by head count, by price, and by thermonuclear warheads, according to the original proposition of this thread.
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Re: The Immorality of Collective Authority

Post Number:#10  Postby Synthesis » August 12th, 2017, 1:31 pm

Steve3007 wrote:
I'm afraid this is too vague to mean anything at all. What legislation are you going to pass, that doesn't already exist, to limit the size of private companies?

You have to re-think what works. For starters, you can get rid of 90% of the government and revoke all corporate charters. You must make the individual primary.
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Re: The Immorality of Collective Authority

Post Number:#11  Postby -1- » August 12th, 2017, 1:45 pm

Synthesis wrote:
Steve3007 wrote:
I'm afraid this is too vague to mean anything at all. What legislation are you going to pass, that doesn't already exist, to limit the size of private companies?

You have to re-think what works. For starters, you can get rid of 90% of the government and revoke all corporate charters. You must make the individual primary.

Sythesis, your answer is impeccable, to the point, and perfectly right. But I have an uncomfortable feeling that your answer will not satisfy Steve; because Steve may heave meant to ask you how to limit the size of private companies while still keeping the functioning of society as we know it, and without destroying America's economy-based and legally founded civilization in one single swoop.
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Re: The Immorality of Collective Authority

Post Number:#12  Postby Synthesis » August 12th, 2017, 2:06 pm

-1- wrote:
Synthesis wrote:(Nested quote removed.)

You have to re-think what works. For starters, you can get rid of 90% of the government and revoke all corporate charters. You must make the individual primary.

Synthesis, your answer is impeccable, to the point, and perfectly right. But I have an uncomfortable feeling that your answer will not satisfy Steve; because Steve may heave meant to ask you how to limit the size of private companies while still keeping the functioning of society as we know it, and without destroying America's economy-based and legally founded civilization in one single swoop.

I believe that the time might be ripe for a little creative destruction, no? The success of the present system is leading to its self-destruction, as is always the case. Time to come back to center.
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Re: The Immorality of Collective Authority

Post Number:#13  Postby -1- » August 12th, 2017, 2:12 pm

Synthesis wrote:I believe that the time might be ripe for a little creative destruction, no? The success of the present system is leading to its self-destruction, as is always the case. Time to come back to center.


Going more right than the right, how is that coming back to the centre? You are getting farther away from the centre. You'd need to move to the LEFT, not the right, to approach the centre.

Other than that, you are consistent.
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Re: The Immorality of Collective Authority

Post Number:#14  Postby Synthesis » August 12th, 2017, 2:38 pm

-1- wrote:
Synthesis wrote:I believe that the time might be ripe for a little creative destruction, no? The success of the present system is leading to its self-destruction, as is always the case. Time to come back to center.


Going more right than the right, how is that coming back to the centre? You are getting farther away from the centre. You'd need to move to the LEFT, not the right, to approach the centre.

Other than that, you are consistent.

I am a-political so 'right and left' doesn't mean a great deal to me.

Going back to the center means restoring balance. The individual needs to reassert Himself.

The collective [as tempting as it might be], always ends badly. It would be like trying to have several significant others.
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Re: The Immorality of Collective Authority

Post Number:#15  Postby Alias » August 12th, 2017, 6:27 pm

Synthesis wrote:I am a-political so 'right and left' doesn't mean a great deal to me.

Going back to the center means restoring balance. The individual needs to reassert Himself.

The collective [as tempting as it might be], always ends badly. It would be like trying to have several significant others.

That sounds more like a libertarian than a centrist, or a-political.
Not sure what's being balanced.
Not sure what this individual is going to do all by Himself, or what will happen to the functions currently performed by various government agencies.

Apologize for misunderstanding your original intent.
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