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George1949 wrote:Based on these decisions by very learned men and women, debating the topic of the morality of abortions would appear to be moot and pointless.
George1949 wrote:Are more people empathic to abortion now? It would appear that they are based on the facts that abortions are now legal in all states in the USA. However,
LuckyR wrote:This topic is centered on conflicting interests. Ultimately while we all agree that a competent adult with full legal rights has certain expectations of autonomy, different folks think a clump of cells with the potential to become a competent adult with full legal rights, have different opinions on the level of fetal rights from zero to 100% that of a competent adult.
Therefore the right to an abortion is logical for those whose opinion is that a fetus has less than 100% of the rights of an adult, and even the small minority who verbalize that they believe a fetus has full adult rights and status would be in a conundrum since they would be selecting between two groups with equal status, so abortion could still be logical even with that atypical view.
Is abortion wrong? Is it okay? Why?
Burning ghost wrote:Another TEN YEAR OLD thread ... with overly general OP:Is abortion wrong? Is it okay? Why?
For the love of "philosophy" (meaning, clarity and communication, in this case) PLEASE decide where the discussion needs to go and lock this thread. Create specific avenues to discuss rather than flail around in several different directions.
SO many directions this discussion can go in. Rather than picking all of them lets please try and pick over particular points that will aide the generality of the topic.
Discuss what is of interest LOCK the thread and open two or three more that can be linked back to these last few pages for context of new readers.
Burning ghost wrote:For example one split thread could involve talking about the religious views attached to the whole abortion debate.
George1949 wrote:The fact that this post is ten years old is irrelevant. Many of us did not join this site ten years ago.
Are you the site’s Geheime Staatspolizei?
My reasoning was not fallacious, just on point. The is what it is reality.
I am not mixing legality with morality or confounding the issue.
“But SHOULD we do it has not been decided unanimously. Yet.”
By unanimously, do you mean everyone in the world should vote on the issue? Whoever has more than 50% of the votes wins. How many people should vote on this in your utopia?
There was no plebiscite. Why would there be one? You are apparently living in your self-made utopia, a fantasy world.
Please join the rest of us who live in reality.
It is moot because it is a pointless debate as to whether abortion is moral. You will never get a plebiscite on this issue and many issues, but that does not change the outcomes. Or is it everyone in your supreme philosophical forum?
You apparently have no respect for the U.S. Supreme Court; so be it. But, you lack of respect does not change this issue which is moot, pointless, just a waste of time.
What is morality?
It will never be decided unanimously as to whether abortions are moral.
Like I said, it is a personal decision based upon your beliefs, with or without merits.
“As of 2017, public support for legal abortion remains as high as it has been in two decades of polling. Currently, 57% say abortion should be legal in all or most cases, while 40% say it should be illegal in all or most cases.”
As it always is, the far right religiously affiliated are against abortion. “Seven-in-ten white evangelical Protestants (70%) think abortion should be illegal in all or most cases. By contrast, 80% of religiously unaffiliated Americans say abortion should be legal in all or most cases, as do two-thirds of white mainline Protestants (67%).”
Is this the majority that you need?
Whose morality are you talking about? Are you talking about some ivory tower nonsense or make-believe nonreality?
You might as well be debating whether it is morally right to require that all automobile drivers have driver licenses or that the legal voting age should not be 18, as determined by the 26th Amendment to the US Constitution.
For your elucidation, here is the definition of moot: of little or no practical value, meaning, or relevance; purely academic.
“…for those whose opinion is that a fetus has less than 100% of the rights of an adult…, and even the small minority who verbalize that a fetus has full legal rights…”
This is more nonsense and moot conjecturing. Fetal rights are another topic for debate. Currently, the only right a fetus has is to be protected while in the mother’s womb.
Wow, now I am told that God has golden eyes. This man should be showered with accolades since he is the first man to see God. I wonder if he took a selfie.
Ratwrangler wrote:Is abortion wrong? That depends on who is answering the question. A woman who is careless enough to get pregnant, but decides she is not ready for a family will likely say no, abortion is a perfectly acceptable form of birth control. A fundamental religious person would likely say yes, once conception has taken place, it is a human being, so killing it is murder. There are a lot of people somewhere in the middle of this range. I believe abortion should be used only to save the mother's life, and only if all other options have failed. I see in this discussion that some say a fetus is not a human being because it cannot survive on its own. The problem with that argument is that there are a lot of "people" in our society that cannot survive on their own, such as physically or mentally damaged people. Can we just get rid of them, based on this argument that if you cannot make it on your own, you're gone? I think it would be an exceptional child that could be thrown into the world under the age of six that could survive on his own. Does this mean we can kill them when they hit the "terrible twos"? I know a lot of mothers that might wish that to be true.
The problem lies within our medical community. Until they get off their collective duffs and actually make a medical decision, with evidence, that at some developmental point, the fetus must be considered human, though unable to care for itself, we will continue to have this discussion. At one time, the medical community stated that late-term abortions were legal and permissible. This meant they could abort up to seven months. If I met one of these people that made this decision, I would likely punch them in the face, and then tell them they cannot sue me because I was born just before seven months, so they don't consider me a person. I know several persons born earlier in the gestation period than I, one at 27 weeks. She is a charming little girl, and I would take offence if someone told me she is not human. Once the medical community makes a definitive statement then, and only then, can we look into the legal, moral, and ethical ramifications of abortion. Do I expect that community to make this decision? Not likely. Medicine is the only service business in the country that cannot offer quotes and will not warrant their work. They don't like to make such decisions as they seem to wish to promote a vague view of what they do, at least based on my 60+ years of dealing with them. Even my doctors won't offer a guess as to what might be wrong with me without "more tests." Actually, one did. I asked him to give me best and worst case scenarios as to what could happen during surgery, and he said, "best case, we perform the procedure and all is well; worst case, uncontrolled bleeding, sepsis, and death." I told him I appreciated the honesty. Fortunately, the latter scenario did not occur and the surgery went well.
Noobe-Noobe wrote:If you believe good and bad, right and wrong exist, then abortion is wrong, it is a murder.
Noobe-Noobe wrote:If you believe good and bad, right and wrong exist, then abortion is wrong, it is a murder. It just doesn't feel like it. And I believe that arguments like 'its a fetus not a baby and it has not grown enough to be considered a person' are just excuses. It may not be like killing a human because we have awareness of our existence but its like killing an animal, just because you don't want to live with it. But all these only if a concept like 'wrong' exists and if you give life a meaning.
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