Human nature - Cooperative or Competitive?

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Elder
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Re: Human nature - Cooperative or Competitive?

Post by Elder » July 26th, 2015, 11:54 am

Spiral Out wrote:
Elder wrote:Another fragile and bruised ego, obsessing with my motivation, mental state and secret 'agenda', instead of my arguments!
Where are your arguments?
Look up. (Posts 1-19)

Then look down.

:roll:
I don't debate with the evaders, the hopelessly 'confused' or the too lazy to think -- life is too short!

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Re: Human nature - Cooperative or Competitive?

Post by Alias » July 26th, 2015, 12:09 pm

There goes another topic.
Those who can induce you to believe absurdities can induce you to commit atrocities. - Voltaire

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Alec Smart
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Re: Human nature - Cooperative or Competitive?

Post by Alec Smart » July 26th, 2015, 12:25 pm

Elder wrote: Then look down.

:roll:
I wonder how you would cope if they took all the little yellow faces away, they're probably the only things that don't disappoint you.
Smart by name and Alec by nature.

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Elder
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Re: Human nature - Cooperative or Competitive?

Post by Elder » July 26th, 2015, 12:26 pm

Alias wrote:There goes another topic.
And a very important topic.

If it weren't for those fragile egos, we could have gone somewhere.

Oh, well, time for a break.
I don't debate with the evaders, the hopelessly 'confused' or the too lazy to think -- life is too short!

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Alec Smart
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Re: Human nature - Cooperative or Competitive?

Post by Alec Smart » July 26th, 2015, 12:45 pm

Elder wrote:
Alias wrote:There goes another topic.
And a very important topic.

Time for a break.
Class dismissed. Everybody back here tomorrow for another very important topic. And if the thieving little bastard who hid my little yellow faces doesn't have them back on my desk first thing in the morning the whole class will get detention. Now get out of my sight, the lot of you, before I threaten to move to pastures new.
Smart by name and Alec by nature.

Jan Sand
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Re: Human nature - Cooperative or Competitive?

Post by Jan Sand » November 25th, 2017, 2:43 pm

I have spent my rather long life being fascinated with the opportunity to be aware of as much as possible and to try to understand everything available to understand. I have great limitations in many directions but I accept that even a century of life is a terribly short time to make sense of my understandings. Even as a child I never felt the need to compete and competitive games and sports never had any attraction to me since, no matter my efforts, there would always be someone better at it than me and it was pleasing to see someone who could do things so wonderfully. I am fundamentally an artist and have attempted to involve myself into the many ways that that field explores because it so deeply requires experimentation in the external world as well as in the action of the mind to accept and delight in the efforts that, at extraordinary times, suddenly reveal patterns that coalesce into comprehension. We are each individuals that see the world somewhat differently than anybody else and to be delighted with all the differences of value and comprehension is, to me, the value of this time alive.

Throughout history almost all of human social life formed itself into hierarchies. Not only governments, but cultures and sub-organizations like businesses, social clubs, the military and even the religions patterned themselves into hierarchies. And hierarchies are essentially competitive in a most peculiar human way. One would think a hierarchy would place at its head the most competent and energetic person with a firm view of the ideals of the group. This does occur but it seems to me that there are other factors involved. Probably more often than not, the leader of a group becomes the least compassionate and the most socially ferocious to the point of psychopathy. And this is extremely true today when leaders use those whom they lead as objects to control and direct with little feeling for individual worth. The huge movement to substitute automatic machinery and robots for human participation in many areas no doubt tremendously increases efficiency and cuts costs but socially it slices huge numbers of people away from the inherent necessity for participation in society and very oddly deprives a market for goods because no funds are distributed for purchasing what is produced. Industry has always treated workers more or less as production machinery and thus negated in principle the function of any organization for production to integrate properly to the benefit of all society. Much criticism of this system is indicated as greed but the system itself demands that behavior and a good entrepreneur must conform or fail.

There is no doubt that current society is headed for ultimate disaster, appointing totally callous leaders armed with world destroying weapons and heedless of the most necessary regard for fellow humans or the welfare of the planet. I have no ready solutions but something must change or nobody will survive.

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Re: Human nature - Cooperative or Competitive?

Post by Scribbler60 » November 25th, 2017, 3:58 pm

Jan Sand wrote:There is no doubt that current society is headed for ultimate disaster, appointing totally callous leaders armed with world destroying weapons and heedless of the most necessary regard for fellow humans or the welfare of the planet. I have no ready solutions but something must change or nobody will survive.
I think your pessimism is misplaced.

Yes, the human race - and every other species, for that matter - is in danger of annihilation, whether it be through nuclear weapons and trump's thin skin, or climate change, or asteroid impact or other calamity, but fact is that people have been warning that the end is near for thousands of years.

Even the most cursory glance through, say, Youtube, will show countless videos warning of impending doom. The impact of the mythical Nibiru - promised for Sept 23, 2017 - is a big one for Youtubers.
Yet, for some inexplicable reason, we're still here.

Yes, trump is making a mess of things, but he's 71 and won't be president forever. Yes, climate change is a very real danger, but it doesn't have to be lethal to humanity. Yes, we might be struck by an asteroid, but we're more likely to nudge it out of harm's way. Yes, humanity might suffer a massive pandemic but the race won't be entirely wiped out.

While sometimes current events and recency bias make for bitter newsreading, I have faith (funny word for a post-theist) in humanity's ability to manage such things.

We always have in the past. We're likely to do so as well in the future.

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Greta
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Re: Human nature - Cooperative or Competitive?

Post by Greta » November 25th, 2017, 8:29 pm

I suggest that the pessimism is not so much misplaced as too generally applied. For a fair percentage of humans and other species, disaster is indeed looming. However, disaster to the many is a mere inconvenience, perhaps at times even a bit of a challenge, for the Trumps, Kochs, Rothschildren and Buffets etc of this world. Those under the corporate umbrella will most likely be safe with their protective technology and independent power supplies.

Around 60,000 years ago an ice age is believed to have killed off all but one group of around 10,000 humans. The strong and lucky survived, and today's strong have much better protections than prehistoric humans, and no doubt contingencies should public utilities fail.

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Re: Human nature - Cooperative or Competitive?

Post by Jan Sand » November 25th, 2017, 10:55 pm

Humans have been around for around two million years. The dinosaurs managed to live around 160 million years. One event destroyed almost everything that didn't fly and, since a mere three million years seems to be required to develop intelligence, I imagine it might have been possible there were a few bright dinosaurs who looked into the sky and scoffed at the idea that that strange bright light that suddenly appeared in the sky that ultimately created the Gulf of Mexico could ever threaten a biological line that lasted 160 million years. Perhaps humans will start to pay attention to the global warming and do something that will quickly change in society so that they realize that even today there are parts of India where the summer temperatures will kill anybody stepping into the sunlight. In twenty years the whole tropic zone will be deadly. Almost all corals are dying, the acid condition of the oceans is killing off much sea life and the fishing is so efficient that many larger species are disappearing and the others are also vanishing in large numbers. The ice at the poles and on Greenland is not only melting but that melt is accelerating. When that becomes almost total in a few decades the bulk of civilization's larger cities will be submerged. When the Gulf stream which warms northern cities stops, northern countries will freeze and it already shows signs of stopping. The past is no evidence of the future and the world has been very lucky that the many close calls of nuclear disaster have not already irradiated and sterilized the planet. A few tens of the thousands of nuclear weapons now existing will kill off most life on this planet and the spread of nuclear technology pretty much guarantees that disaster will occur. No doubt there are lots of bright people concerned but the forces of economics and the huge number of exceedingly stupid and powerful people in control indicate that humanity has very small chances of surviving. Those chances depend on a quick awakening to reality which simply isn't happening. I do not relish the approaching horror but I am soon 92 years old and have small prospects of seeing the worst. Humans have had a decent time to develop a society of reason and compassion but society today with its current series of wars that kills off millions of people pointlessly clearly indicates humanity and much else of life have very small chances of surviving. I am very, very sorry.

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