Is love an unnecessary evil?

[Above us only sky]

In our human society, getting married is much more sophisticated, but I found human courtship resembles animal courtship in some ways:
for example, in lots of countries, when a man wants to marry a women, the man usually needs to give a sum to the woman's family as dowry, occasions, the woman's family will reject a man who provides less dowry and prefer a man who can provides more dowry, behind this is a competition between each bridegroom's placement on the social hierarchy symbolized as the concept of "dowry", we can often see the bridegroom who occupied higher placement on the social hierarchy has a better chance to win the bride. If it is the bridegroom's placement on the social hierarchy that matters, then what's the point of romantic love since it can go against this social placement calculation? If this is so, is romantic love an unnecessary evil?

[Lucylu]

In our human society, getting married is much more sophisticated, but I found human courtship resembles animal courtship in some ways:
for example, in lots of countries, when a man wants to marry a women, the man usually needs to give a sum to the woman's family as dowry, occasions, the woman's family will reject a man who provides less dowry and prefer a man who can provides more dowry, behind this is a competition between each bridegroom's placement on the social hierarchy symbolized as the concept of "dowry", we can often see the bridegroom who occupied higher placement on the social hierarchy has a better chance to win the bride. If it is the bridegroom's placement on the social hierarchy that matters, then what's the point of romantic love since it can go against this social placement calculation? If this is so, is romantic love an unnecessary evil?

Romantic love, to me, is nature's way of telling us who has the best genes. The person's pheromones and appearance are literally intoxicating. It is pretty rare in my experience and in modern times (I think) that someone would choose to marry another person, purely based on money. Its tempting but the bottom line is you will have to sleep in the same bed with that person for (potentially) the rest of your life and have sex with them in order to keep them happy. That would be little more than high class prostitution.

However the confidence of an individual (perhaps especially men) can be intertwined with their income and power/ influence, and confidence is attractive, so I can see how a man might assume that he lost a potential mate because of the wealth of a 'competitor' when actually it was much deeper issues. It really depends on the person. Some may be more practical and think more in two dimensions, whereas others will require a deeper emotional connection.

You may lament the fact that a woman chose someone else because the other guy had more money, but if that's true, is that really the kind of woman you want to be with? Do you want a trophy wife or a real partner?

[Ormond]

....then what's the point of romantic love?

Try it, and find out.

[Steve3007]

The OP talks specifically about the function of marriage and makes the point that there is an age old tension between marriage because of love and marriage as an institution for cementing alliances and strengthening families (ultimately in order to create an affluent stable base in which to raise children securely.)

O Romeo, Romeo! Wherefore art thou Romeo?
Deny thy father and refuse thy name.
Or, if thou wilt not, be but sworn my love,
And I’ll no longer be a Capulet.

etc.

As Lucylu points out, our genes demand that love rebels against the established order to mix things up and keep us genetically healthy. If Juliet had married a Capulet it may have been good for family stability but not so good for the genetic health of the Montague clan.

Also, of course, romantic love is the most exciting experience available to humanity (at least when you're young).

[Sy Borg]

The Op has been well covered by others here, but I would distinguish Eros, or sexual passion from other types of love, as described by the Greeks:

Philia / deep friendship

Ludus / or playful love (eg. involving young people or those young at heart)

Agape / love for all or universal love

Pragma / longstanding love (the understanding between old couples)

Philautia / love of the self - can be healthy or unhealthy.

All love is ultimately positive, at least preferable to the alternative.

[Ormond]

One of the purposes of romantic love is that, when we are lying on our death bed a remarkably short time from now, we can look back and take comfort from the fact that when we had the chance we actually lived.

All these relentlessly dreary posts about love are actually nothing more than the most ordinary kind of fear hiding behind a pseudo intellectual screen. When it finally dawns on us that we're going to die for sure and there's nothing anybody can do about it, we'll realize that there was never anything to be afraid of. The trick is to figure that out before we get to our death bed.

[Sy Borg]

Ormond, do you really think you are the only one here who is red-blooded enough to have loved romantically? Do you really think the rest of us are speaking from a coolly academic view without real life experience?

I have loved romantically and I think it's overrated. Once I was lead to believe that if you didn't end up living happily ever after with someone then your life amounted to nothing.

However, in lieu of romance in later middle age, I've found much happiness in the quiet life. I personally find nature, including humans, easy to love, but that doesn't mean I want to spend the rest of my life with them (aside from the dog). I will be glad on my deathbed that I allowed myself to relax rather than continuing feverish attempts to meet that "special someone" to validate my existence.

[Steve3007]

There's definitely nothing whatsoever in my life who's purpose is to place me in a particular state of mind when I'm lying on my deathbed. With the possible exception of the springs in the mattress of my deathbed.

But I do sometimes wonder what my last words will be. Henry VIII's last words were "Monks! Monks! Monks!" Mine will probably be something banal like "I keep thinking it's Tuesday."

[LuckyR]

Speaking of the origin of romantic love and trying to shoehorn it into equaling the role it plays in Modern times is an error. The two are completely separate, not dissimilar to trying to equate the primal need for caloric consumption and haute cuisine.

[Steve3007]

Greta: I don't think you should have removed the opening sentence of that last post. It was funny and I intend to use it in real life at the first opportunity.

[Sy Borg]

Greta: I don't think you should have removed the opening sentence of that last post. It was funny and I intend to use it in real life at the first opportunity.

Heh! It is a fun one to use in real life too, but I try to behave myself here these days with all those onerous moderation responsibilities and whatnot. Sometimes. Maybe.

[Ormond]

Ormond, do you really think you are the only one here who is red-blooded enough to have loved romantically? Do you really think the rest of us are speaking from a coolly academic view without real life experience?

I never said any such thing, you are continuing an ongoing pattern of exaggerating my remarks so it will be easier for Your Royal Laziness to debunk them. I'm not offended, but you should expect this reply each time you do that.

Mr. Sky gets what I said and why.

I have loved romantically and I think it's overrated. Once I was lead to believe that if you didn't end up living happily ever after with someone then your life amounted to nothing.

Well, then maybe I am the only red blooded love fool here after all, who knows.

However, in lieu of romance in later middle age, I've found much happiness in the quiet life. I personally find nature, including humans, easy to love, but that doesn't mean I want to spend the rest of my life with them (aside from the dog). I will be glad on my deathbed that I allowed myself to relax rather than continuing feverish attempts to meet that "special someone" to validate my existence.

Ok, your call of course. But you have tried romance, so you have some basis upon which to chart your own personal course.

Mr. Sky has not tried romance yet. He's trying to "figure it out" from a safe abstract distance, using guidance from dreary dead numbskulls like Schopenhauer. I'm attempting, however inexpertly, to guide him in the processes of reason. By which I mean, gather real world data before developing theories and conclusions.

Greta, if I understand it you are 50+ like me. You've done a lot of things, and based on that real world experience come to some decisions about what works for you. I have no argument with that.

I'm arguing with twenty somethings who at the ripe old age of 22 think they have figured it all out, based on no experience at all, and excessive consumption of dead German philosophers.

I agree this is foolishness on my part, given that those who think they already know are not in a position to learn anything. But after examining all the options in my 60+ years of real world experience I have concluded that I am an expert at foolishness, a genius at it really, and so I'm doing what I was born to do.

-- Updated July 14th, 2016, 6:32 am to add the following --

There's definitely nothing whatsoever in my life who's purpose is to place me in a particular state of mind when I'm lying on my deathbed.

Then you are not making very good use of one of life's greatest gifts.

[Steve3007]

Then you are not making very good use of one of life's greatest gifts.

I can live with that.

[Sy Borg]

I'm arguing with twenty somethings who at the ripe old age of 22 think they have figured it all out, based on no experience at all, and excessive consumption of dead German philosophers.

Okay. I'm not giving life advice, just saying that romantic love is not the be-all and end-all. I knew people who simply did not bother with romance until they finished their studies. Did they waste their teens and early 20s or did they focus on getting their lives together at a time when one's emotions can be problematic and then enter the romantic fray when they felt a bit more confident and mature?

I thought the sexual liberation of the 60s was necessary and ultimately positive, but a downside of it is peer pressure on young people to get romantically and/or sexually entangled when we all develop at different rates. I did a number of things before I was ready because I thought I was "supposed to" when I might have been happier sticking with my uncool nerdy hobbies a while longer.

[Ormond]

Okay. I'm not giving life advice, just saying that romantic love is not the be-all and end-all.

To be a bit more precise, romantic love is not the be-all and end-all FOR YOU.

I knew people who simply did not bother with romance until they finished their studies. Did they waste their teens and early 20s or did they focus on getting their lives together at a time when one's emotions can be problematic and then enter the romantic fray when they felt a bit more confident and mature?

Ok, that's one way to go. Keep in mind that there is a deadline of sorts though. Once one's peer group hits about 30 the great majority of them will become consumed by marriage, family, career, and no longer be interested in dating, substantially reducing the available options. And...

A person in their teens who doesn't have experience is completely normal. A person in their twenties who doesn't have experience is a little odd, but not that unusual. But if we get to age 39 and don't have experience, it's pretty much game over because then we will be labeled a weirdo, and any hope of developing social confidence through experience may be gone.

Thus, there is some logic to urging inexperienced twenty somethings to get off their butts and go do some real world living.

I thought the sexual liberation of the 60s was necessary and ultimately positive, but a downside of it is peer pressure on young people to get romantically and/or sexually entangled when we all develop at different rates.

Sure, not everybody needs to be romantically involved at 15, agreed. Or maybe 23 either. But if one waits too long, the odds of it ever happening go way down.

I would suggest the main consideration should be safe sex, not having children one doesn't intend to have. That's really important.

But after that, and let's assume the legal age of 18, it's wise to go ahead, man up, make your move, dive in, make the usual mistakes and learn from them. Trying to "figure it out" ahead of time is mostly a waste of time. Typically that's just a hiding place posing as an intellectual inquiry etc.