Derogatory Term Pt:1 Animalistic people

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Sy Borg
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Re: Derogatory Term Pt:1 Animalistic people

Post by Sy Borg »

TigerNinja wrote:
Greta wrote:[long-ish post, quoted enough already]
Although does this then give us permission to see ourselves as better of we are playing the same game?
We already do. All animals are equal but some are more equal than others, as Orwell observed (with some exception made for working and companion animals like canines and felines).

To a fair extent our human senses and morphology lock us into our species-centric view. From there, relationships developed from day one corral much of our focus. For any social species, it's usually more consequential to pay attention to your own than to others (barring the occasional charging rhino or tsetse fly infestation). If there is a predictable development path for biospheres I expect that species-centrism of dominant animals would be usual, as would a dominant species' general tendency to treat the rest of nature as resources rather than peers.

In context, growing environmental awareness is interesting. I suspect there was a cock up along the way during colonial times. An awful lot of indigenous environmental knowledge was lost because colonialists were not sufficiently advanced to appreciate it, too caught up in apelike asserting of status. Today we are playing catchup with the environment and undergoing some development pains that may have been avoidable.

Had the oceans been wider and more treacherous then, by the time colonial cultures traversed them, they may have been more cultured and willing to accept and try to understand the knowledge of the indigenes they displaced, and maybe even cooperated.
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Re: Derogatory Term Pt:1 Animalistic people

Post by Grunth »

If I say, and sometimes I do, that people in a particular circumstance are 'being animals' then I mean this sincerely. Animals act purely on emotion, whereas the human animal does not necessarily act this way.
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Re: Derogatory Term Pt:1 Animalistic people

Post by TigerNinja »

Grunth wrote:If I say, and sometimes I do, that people in a particular circumstance are 'being animals' then I mean this sincerely. Animals act purely on emotion, whereas the human animal does not necessarily act this way.
Human behavior has nothing but chemicals and conditioning that forms it. There is no behavioural difference between us in my opinion. There if only learning and no teaching.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
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Re: Derogatory Term Pt:1 Animalistic people

Post by Grunth »

TigerNinja wrote:
Grunth wrote:If I say, and sometimes I do, that people in a particular circumstance are 'being animals' then I mean this sincerely. Animals act purely on emotion, whereas the human animal does not necessarily act this way.
Human behavior has nothing but chemicals and conditioning that forms it. There is no behavioural difference between us in my opinion. There if only learning and no teaching.
Firstly, different conditioning will cause 'behavioral differences'. But what is more important, with regard to behavioral difference between people (something you suggest does not exist), is transcendence potential of conditioning being actualized in a person. There are techniques to learn to transcend what was once oneself to become a next oneself.

Of course there are behavioral differences between 'us'. Do you think we all behave the same in every same circumstance? If you do think this, can you give examples?
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Re: Derogatory Term Pt:1 Animalistic people

Post by TigerNinja »

Grunth wrote:
TigerNinja wrote: (Nested quote removed.)


Human behavior has nothing but chemicals and conditioning that forms it. There is no behavioural difference between us in my opinion. There if only learning and no teaching.
Firstly, different conditioning will cause 'behavioral differences'. But what is more important, with regard to behavioral difference between people (something you suggest does not exist), is transcendence potential of conditioning being actualized in a person. There are techniques to learn to transcend what was once oneself to become a next oneself.

Of course there are behavioral differences between 'us'. Do you think we all behave the same in every same circumstance? If you do think this, can you give examples?
I did not insinuate that. Conditioning varies greatly but if you were in the EXACT same situation with my background and life, etc. You would act the same. Maybe slightly differently due to genetics but likely, you would react very similarly.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
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Re: Derogatory Term Pt:1 Animalistic people

Post by Grunth »

TigerNinja wrote:
Grunth wrote: (Nested quote removed.)

Firstly, different conditioning will cause 'behavioral differences'. But what is more important, with regard to behavioral difference between people (something you suggest does not exist), is transcendence potential of conditioning being actualized in a person. There are techniques to learn to transcend what was once oneself to become a next oneself.

Of course there are behavioral differences between 'us'. Do you think we all behave the same in every same circumstance? If you do think this, can you give examples?
I did not insinuate that. Conditioning varies greatly but if you were in the EXACT same situation with my background and life, etc. You would act the same. Maybe slightly differently due to genetics but likely, you would react very similarly.
I didn't see any examples there.

Here is a situation. I'm in Iraq and a crowd has gathered to witness a homosexual being executed by being thrown off a building. I hear about the event but I choose not to attend. I am behaving differently to the crowd.
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Re: Derogatory Term Pt:1 Animalistic people

Post by LuckyR »

TigerNinja wrote:
LuckyR wrote: (Nested quote removed.)


But there exists a huge middle ground between doing what everyone else does (100% species favoritism) and the (factually incorrect) idea that every species is "equal". That middle ground is what H Sapiens is doing right now: taking animals and other species into consideration, but not as much consideration as other people.
But take into mind that factually, there is no such thing as intelligence or equality or inequality. These are all false ideas that humans have made simply made to form their own society.

-- Updated August 3rd, 2016, 5:14 pm to add the following --
TigerNinja wrote: (Nested quote removed.)


But take into mind that factually, there is no such thing as intelligence or equality or inequality. These are all false ideas that humans have made simply made to form their own society.
Our own society is (and hereby I quote Yuval Noah Harari) "Living in a dual reality. There is no America. There is no dollar (or in my (TigerNinja not Yuval Noah Harari's) case, the pound). The dollar is a piece of paper." This reality is invented to keep society together and to maintain widespread ideologies. If you do what I say, you will get endless joy in Heaven. Law follows the same principles simply more down to Earth.

Our fault of blindly following people tends to bring us in close societies then making such faults our very strength.
Huh? So why the call for treating the species equally through not feeling one is superior to the next?
"As usual... it depends."
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Re: Derogatory Term Pt:1 Animalistic people

Post by TigerNinja »

Grunth wrote:
TigerNinja wrote: (Nested quote removed.)


I did not insinuate that. Conditioning varies greatly but if you were in the EXACT same situation with my background and life, etc. You would act the same. Maybe slightly differently due to genetics but likely, you would react very similarly.
I didn't see any examples there.

Here is a situation. I'm in Iraq and a crowd has gathered to witness a homosexual being executed by being thrown off a building. I hear about the event but I choose not to attend. I am behaving differently to the crowd.
You didn't see any examples because you didn't look at the meaning behind what I said. There is a difference but it relies on conditioning and genetics. You didn't go to witness it since your conditioning and with it, your false 'consciousness' told you otherwise. The only behavioural differences are determined by genetics and varying conditioning.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer
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Re: Derogatory Term Pt:1 Animalistic people

Post by Grunth »

TigerNinja wrote:
Grunth wrote: (Nested quote removed.)

I didn't see any examples there.

Here is a situation. I'm in Iraq and a crowd has gathered to witness a homosexual being executed by being thrown off a building. I hear about the event but I choose not to attend. I am behaving differently to the crowd.
You didn't see any examples because you didn't look at the meaning behind what I said. There is a difference but it relies on conditioning and genetics. You didn't go to witness it since your conditioning and with it, your false 'consciousness' told you otherwise. The only behavioural differences are determined by genetics and varying conditioning.
"but if you were in the EXACT same situation with my background and life, etc. You would act the same"

This is nonsensical. The EXACT same situation you are alluding to is to say the exact same person. I am nothing like my brothers. They had the same 'life conditions'. They react very differently to myself to circumstances.

-- Updated August 5th, 2016, 9:21 pm to add the following --

"There is no behavioural difference between us in my opinion."

Your opinion on this is so full of holes it is not worth arguing with.
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Re: Derogatory Term Pt:1 Animalistic people

Post by Belinda »

Tiger-Ninja wrote or quoted I'm not sure which:
"but if you were in the EXACT same situation with my background and life, etc. You would act the same"
But if you were in the exact same situation as someone else you would be that someone else and the someone else would be you.
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Re: Derogatory Term Pt:1 Animalistic people

Post by Grunth »

Belinda wrote:Tiger-Ninja wrote or quoted I'm not sure which:
"but if you were in the EXACT same situation with my background and life, etc. You would act the same"
But if you were in the exact same situation as someone else you would be that someone else and the someone else would be you.
I made that point. Or at least attempted to by replying with this "The EXACT same situation you are alluding to is to say the exact same person."
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Re: Derogatory Term Pt:1 Animalistic people

Post by Belinda »

My apologies Grunth. You did indeed make that same point.
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Re: Derogatory Term Pt:1 Animalistic people

Post by Socrates Tea »

I think that if we put moderate faith into the system, it will serve is moderately well, but if we put fanatical faith into the system, it will turn on us.

At the end, necessary fictions ARE -necessary- fictions and can be used in the same way that the atomic model can be used to explain chemistry (and produce medicine).

I understand skepticism regarding money and flags and all that, but it seems that moderate skepticism tempered with moderate faith is the way to go because right now it's all we have to go on.

Anythign else is just another ideological revolution.
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