We are all racist

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Haicoway
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Re: We are all racist

Post by Haicoway » December 31st, 2016, 7:32 am

I hope this note from my phone transmits okay. Dating a members of another race is a wonderful way to bridge the natural us-and-them response. Erstwhile suspicious differences can become delicious variations within one's owned aesthetic armamentarium.

-- Updated December 31st, 2016, 7:37 am to add the following --

Damned phone. Didn't see an edit button after pushing submit. Meant to write "Dating members," not "Dating a members."

-- Updated January 7th, 2017, 12:40 pm to add the following --

Why is racism more virulent regarding Black people by White people than, say, Asians? If you say that White people, who tend toward racism, are just as torqued by Asians as by Black people, then read no further. Just consider me ignorant.

Dr. Carl Jung said that Black people are associated with darkness in one’s own psyche; in his words, a person’s Shadow. The Shadow is the protector of the rational part of the brain from the un-rational (not exactly irrational) nether regions of the brain, with their history going way back in human evolution to the amoral primordial swamps and beyond. The Shadow can be alerted to danger by the sight of a Black person.

Most people, especially liberals, will revolt against such an idea, or have a Shadow reaction, if you will. But I accept it as intuitive and logical. I read that even Black people, who also have Shadows, of course, in laboratory experiments viscerally react to an unfamiliar Black face with more fear than a new White face. And I read that when primitive Black Africans were first introduced to White People, they tended to deify them rather than react in fear and distrust.

I know that most sophisticated people like to think racism is learned and that Black people learn discrimination against White people to the same degree that White people learn discrimination against Black people. They say that education can cure that. I say the kind of education they are talking about will help, but won’t cure racism. The education I am talking about; that is, understanding the Shadow, can help a lot more. This in addition to a romantic involvement with a Black person, if one is White, which I said before.

I can’t easily cite references (I read neuroscience and neuropsychology books, and then take them back to the library); so, as I said before, just color me ignorant if you want to.

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Empiricist-Bruno
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Re: We are all racist

Post by Empiricist-Bruno » January 9th, 2017, 2:12 pm

"We are all racist" is a a statement that would be most welcome from someone that knows us all very well. Do you know us all? If you do not know us all, how can you categorize us this way? Isn't that prejudice? A racist can indeed call everybody a racist because he/she doesn't know.
If you do know us all, I then think that you sound a little arrogant and that you may be wrong as I do not know myself as a racist.
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Re: We are all racist

Post by Burning ghost » January 10th, 2017, 4:24 am

Haicoway wrote:I hope this note from my phone transmits okay. Dating a members of another race is a wonderful way to bridge the natural us-and-them response. Erstwhile suspicious differences can become delicious variations within one's owned aesthetic armamentarium.

-- Updated December 31st, 2016, 7:37 am to add the following --

Damned phone. Didn't see an edit button after pushing submit. Meant to write "Dating members," not "Dating a members."

-- Updated January 7th, 2017, 12:40 pm to add the following --

Why is racism more virulent regarding Black people by White people than, say, Asians? If you say that White people, who tend toward racism, are just as torqued by Asians as by Black people, then read no further. Just consider me ignorant.

Dr. Carl Jung said that Black people are associated with darkness in one’s own psyche; in his words, a person’s Shadow. The Shadow is the protector of the rational part of the brain from the un-rational (not exactly irrational) nether regions of the brain, with their history going way back in human evolution to the amoral primordial swamps and beyond. The Shadow can be alerted to danger by the sight of a Black person.

Most people, especially liberals, will revolt against such an idea, or have a Shadow reaction, if you will. But I accept it as intuitive and logical. I read that even Black people, who also have Shadows, of course, in laboratory experiments viscerally react to an unfamiliar Black face with more fear than a new White face. And I read that when primitive Black Africans were first introduced to White People, they tended to deify them rather than react in fear and distrust.

I know that most sophisticated people like to think racism is learned and that Black people learn discrimination against White people to the same degree that White people learn discrimination against Black people. They say that education can cure that. I say the kind of education they are talking about will help, but won’t cure racism. The education I am talking about; that is, understanding the Shadow, can help a lot more. This in addition to a romantic involvement with a Black person, if one is White, which I said before.

I can’t easily cite references (I read neuroscience and neuropsychology books, and then take them back to the library); so, as I said before, just color me ignorant if you want to.
There are a number of reasons why "black people" are held in such regard. Media. History. Cultural attitudes.

Some cultures wear "white" at funerals as a sign of death not "black". If there were red skinned alien race I am sure they would be considered violent, passionate and incite angry. If they were all very nice aliens and helped us then we would change our attitudes and reactions to the colour "red" to some degree.

If in cultural history we regarded "black" as a fascinating enigma not an unknown thing to be feared we may very well have revered people of a darker complexion.

We are all human. We are all capable of murder and racism. This does not make us all racist. I can say that we all have biases and some of these biases can prejudice us against others and if these prejudices are further reinforced and normalised then it leads to racism.

Like in the other thread asking about a woman wanting to only live around other white people. I would not call this merely a bias. I would call this a political statement that has the obvious foundation for starting racial hatred. This is because the cultural representation of some people (due to clothing, eye colour, tone of voice, accent) leads to stereotyping that is a necessary function of surviving and understanding the world. It is not an intricate understanding only a brief unsophisticated glance at an appearance of something not a critical analysis of something. To adhere to appearance as the complete truth is throw aside critical thought.

To be honest if we have people saying they are racist then it is easier to deal with. It is those who don't understand that what they say is racist that causes problems. I would also add that this works both ways. Some people may be accused of being racist when they are merely asking ethical questions that happen to involve certain sections of society.

If you are scared of someone because of the way they look simply ask why. Do not try to reinforce the stereotype by backing it up qith convenient cherry-picked information. It is the attempts to justify complex issues that are far from black and white that is the root of many social problems (in Jungian terms we can then ask about qhat we mean by "black and white").

Children are not racist. Adults make children racist. I would not call myself a racist. I would say that I am guilty of some thoughts that are racist. I am very glad that I can admit such things to myself and come to understand how society has influenced me and how I have overcome other naïve opinions from my younger years. Negative information and experiences colour how we view the world and the people around us.

If someone says to me they hate Bolivians, I would try not to view this as a personal remark from the person to express xenophobia or racism towards Bolivian people. I would understand this in light of me saying similar things as a broad and sweeping statement about the international attitudes of a nation and its government rather than as a statement directed at every single Bolivian citizen or towards anyone of Bolivian cultural heritage. The person may simply, as we all do, made a rather silly statement to express their dislike of some current military action made by some institution residing within the borders of Bolivia.

As a general rule of language and communicating we unfortunately have to make some blanket-like statements in order to get the gist of an idea across. In todays world people want quick and brief answers and explanations. In such a information driven society a greater deal care must be taken and allowances of naïvety in the words uttered taken into account. The more precise we are in attmepts to express ourselves the easier it is to fall away from any coherent meaning ... as I may or may not have done in this post? To some people reading this they may have simply turned-off halfway through. Others may simlly skim over the words and already hold an opinion of me from other posts and have me framed as X or Y and by such framing instantly want to oppose my words and distort them.

Agreement between people is mostly pointless in ethics. For me the important thing is to question your ethical reasoning and to then reframe the question so as to oppose your conclusions and to continue to adapt and adjust your perspectives and stretch yourselves to deal with more an more difficult hypothetical situations.

Anyway. That is, VERY briefly, my general political attitude.
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TSBU
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Re: We are all racist

Post by TSBU » January 10th, 2017, 8:42 am

I remember reading I don't know where (or maybe I saw it in tv), that we usually (humans in general, statistics) feel phisically atracted to other etnias and strangers, that means "new gens", it is less endogamic.

I don't want to talk about this thread, I just found it curious and I thought that someone may find it curious too here.

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Re: We are all racist

Post by Burning ghost » January 10th, 2017, 10:32 am

TSBU wrote:I remember reading I don't know where (or maybe I saw it in tv), that we usually (humans in general, statistics) feel phisically atracted to other etnias and strangers, that means "new gens", it is less endogamic.

I don't want to talk about this thread, I just found it curious and I thought that someone may find it curious too here.
I find this curious because I don't understand it. "Etnias", "new gens", "endogamic"? I goggled the first and last one. Of gor a vague gist of what you were talking about by using the term "endogamic".
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Faithgrad17
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Re: We are all racist

Post by Faithgrad17 » March 11th, 2017, 6:05 pm

Racism is not prejudice, discrimination, bigotry, or even preference. Racism is the SYSTEMATIC oppression I of one group of people by another. And yes, racism fosters all of those things above, but it is not when someone doesn't like someone else. We can't stop someone from not liking someone, but we CAN stop the people with power from oppressing the ones without.

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LuckyR
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Re: We are all racist

Post by LuckyR » March 24th, 2017, 12:44 pm

Faithgrad17 wrote:Racism is not prejudice, discrimination, bigotry, or even preference. Racism is the SYSTEMATIC oppression I of one group of people by another. And yes, racism fosters all of those things above, but it is not when someone doesn't like someone else. We can't stop someone from not liking someone, but we CAN stop the people with power from oppressing the ones without.
That is a perfectly fine, though incomplete definition. If one accepts your opinion as the One True definition, that would separate racism from racist, as in most of who currently qualify as racist would not be practicing racism (under the above).
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Re: We are all racist

Post by Dissimulation » March 24th, 2017, 3:12 pm

I disagree. In most of the historical examples one nation committed acts against another nation, nothing suggests that the acts themselves were definitively motivated by 'Racism', it seems logical that the acts were committed for the benefit of one nation or ruling party over the other. The world was sparse and violence/war/survival was a constant concern, globalization was not a significant consideration. What was different was a very real threat, superiority/Inferiority dynamic evolved when conquered nations were incorporated into the victorious nation state - The idea that one is innately
superior over another based on physical and cultural differences was an idea used to maintain dominance of the ruling class. Often Race relations have been used as a justification to destroy a group for reasons other then an innate hatred towards a particular group based solely on physical/cultural differences. Its much easier to inflict cruelty and injustice upon a group if they are perceived to be less then human. Slavery, annihilation etc almost always has an ulterior motivation (slavery- Massive work force, resources, land, history of violence etc). Racism as it exists today is generally institutional and most often practiced by individuals who blame there discontent and woes on other nations, more so in most developed cultures where the threat of violent retaliation is mitigated. Racism in the general population does exists as a cultural development among
those who were born into an environment where it is fostered, because of globalization this problem continues to persist. Even if you disagree nothing in your argument validates the claim that racism is an innate human trait, more so an argument that claims all individuals are inherently racist, citing an interpretation of historical events has no relevance to asserting a single individual is innately racist, and in no way infers it as a universality of the human condition. Unfortunately both sides the oppressed and the oppressors have a tendency to claim an act is racist even if it has no relevance, the term Racism has become so muddled, confused and misused that it complicates and impedes a rational solution and diverts attention from genuine acts of Racism. The idea is so dogmatic on both sides of the fence (no pun intended) that the systemic issues themselves are rarely addressed. The examples used in this thread regarding racial attributes are absurd, they are not arguments but rather blatant claims made through the particular lens of the individual claiming them. Racial Facticities do exist but generally have no greater effect then the differences between two individuals of the same culture and genetic ethnicity. The claim Asians are intelligent, blacks are physicality and whites live in the cold is a mass generalization without merit. all Individuals are uniquely different, attributes and limitations are based on an inconceivable amount of variables I.e General categories Genetic disposition, Environment and the total of every experience.

I would be grateful if anyone who has already contributed a superiority based solely on race to further elaborate how those conclusions were drawn.
all topics require thought and critical reasoning in philosophical argumentation, but particular topics regarding relevant and divisive topics ought ( on a philosophy board all arguments ought to) to be given careful consideration in separating critical thought from subjective opinion.

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Re: We are all racist

Post by WisdomNotStrife » June 10th, 2017, 12:00 am

It is very simple:

1.) There is no such thing as biological race within the human species. Race is an arbitrary cultural construct. Tomorrow it could be based on eye color, stature, or the number of stars on one's belly ("You can't teach a sneetch"). It is in no way embedded in biology. See the American Anthropological Association Statement On Race.

2.) Anything giving any credence to the concept/idea of biological race is racism. Saying that a person is "white" is giving credence to biological race. It doesn't have to be something purposefully oppressive, like giving an African-American a longer sentence for a crime against a non-African-American than for a crime against another African-American.

3.) If you consciously reject the concept of biological race and give it no credence, you are not racist

4.) Racism will not end until everybody rejects the concept of biological race and gives it no credence.

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Re: We are all racist

Post by LuckyR » June 25th, 2017, 3:27 am

WisdomNotStrife wrote:It is very simple:

1.) There is no such thing as biological race within the human species. Race is an arbitrary cultural construct. Tomorrow it could be based on eye color, stature, or the number of stars on one's belly ("You can't teach a sneetch"). It is in no way embedded in biology. See the American Anthropological Association Statement On Race.

2.) Anything giving any credence to the concept/idea of biological race is racism. Saying that a person is "white" is giving credence to biological race. It doesn't have to be something purposefully oppressive, like giving an African-American a longer sentence for a crime against a non-African-American than for a crime against another African-American.

3.) If you consciously reject the concept of biological race and give it no credence, you are not racist

4.) Racism will not end until everybody rejects the concept of biological race and gives it no credence.
Not a bad way of looking at the topic
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Re: We are all racist

Post by Gertie » June 25th, 2017, 3:11 pm

WisdomNotStrife wrote:It is very simple:

1.) There is no such thing as biological race within the human species. Race is an arbitrary cultural construct. Tomorrow it could be based on eye color, stature, or the number of stars on one's belly ("You can't teach a sneetch"). It is in no way embedded in biology. See the American Anthropological Association Statement On Race.

2.) Anything giving any credence to the concept/idea of biological race is racism. Saying that a person is "white" is giving credence to biological race. It doesn't have to be something purposefully oppressive, like giving an African-American a longer sentence for a crime against a non-African-American than for a crime against another African-American.

3.) If you consciously reject the concept of biological race and give it no credence, you are not racist

4.) Racism will not end until everybody rejects the concept of biological race and gives it no credence.
Yes race is a constructed category, but understanding for example the neurobiology behind why and how we construct such categories is a useful thing imo, and something a field like anthropology could usefully do. Drawing in info from social sciences, psychology and evolutionary neuroscience, and seeing how that plays out in a cultural context.

I don't think it can be coincidental that we are social mammals who evolved Ingroup/Outgroup predispositions (neurobiological mechanisms) at a time when we lived in small tribal groups, and strangers might be seen as either a threat or competitor for local resources.

And experiments show that Ingroup/Outgroup responses can be contrived and triggered extremely easily, and powerfully, based on all sorts of daft reasons, not just race. Our notions of our own identity and worth is in part formed by comparing/contrasting with others.

So I think we're 'primed' for Us/Them attitudes like racism. The rest is down to circumstance, parenting, culture, etc - our neurobiology interacting with our environment.( So for example one of the best vaccinations against stereotyping the Other is living among them and getting to know them as individuals, so they are no longer the homogeneous Other).



All that said, we also have to remember we're extremely complex critters, with a kludgy hotchpotch of evolved predispositions, and this is only one aspect of how we work. And we're very smart too. we can reason. So while we can perhaps paint broad brush pictures of how something like racism could arise, the reality of historical circumstance and individual personalities is extremely complex, and such attitudes aren't fixed. Understanding them is part of unfixing them.

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Re: We are all racist

Post by QuarterMaster69 » March 7th, 2018, 10:55 am

Roel wrote:
December 21st, 2016, 8:40 am
Racism is discrimination and prejudice towards people based on their race or ethnicity.
That is an incomplete definition of racism therefore you lead to the wrong conclusion that we are racists.

You left out the most important aspect of racism which is the belief that your race is superior to that of other races.

We all show discrimination and prejudice toward people even of our own race! That doesn't make us racists. Show that we believe we are superior to an Olympian athlete of a different race. Are you superior of an athlete to Usain Bolt?

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