Money and Ethics

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Jan Sand
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Joined: September 10th, 2017, 11:57 am

Re: Money and Ethics

Post by Jan Sand » February 2nd, 2018, 1:42 pm

What is it in you that is so anxious to engage in conflict? I have presented my case quite adequately and supplied sources for your contemplation. I am not interested in your inability to perceive solid source material. That is your problem, not mine.

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Frost
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Joined: January 20th, 2018, 2:44 pm

Re: Money and Ethics

Post by Frost » February 2nd, 2018, 2:08 pm

Jan Sand wrote:
February 2nd, 2018, 1:42 pm
What is it in you that is so anxious to engage in conflict? I have presented my case quite adequately and supplied sources for your contemplation. I am not interested in your inability to perceive solid source material. That is your problem, not mine.
It's clear that it's complete economic nonsense. For example:

"A major argument of the book is that the imprecise, informal, community-building indebtedness of "human economies" is only replaced by mathematically precise, firmly enforced debts through the introduction of violence, usually state-sponsored violence in some form of military or police."

"markets are founded and usually maintained by systematic state violence"

"Debt, the book argues, has typically retained its primacy, with cash and barter usually limited to situations of low trust involving strangers or those not considered credit-worthy."

"Graeber suggests that economic life originally related to social currencies. These were closely related to routine non-market interactions within a community. "

This is just utter nonsense. He obviously doesn't understand the function of money or markets. Markets emerge through voluntary human interactions, not "systematic state violence." Money is merely a medium of exchange as I have been saying, and it is a medium of exchange used for people to obtain their desired goods and services which is not possible otherwise.

Jan Sand
Posts: 510
Joined: September 10th, 2017, 11:57 am

Re: Money and Ethics

Post by Jan Sand » February 2nd, 2018, 2:35 pm

To deny that money exerts far more power in economics and politics than merely a medium of exchange is to be totally blind to the current political and military forces in the successive destruction of multiple countries in the Middle East. The use of powerful financially motivated governments to destroy democracies in the world to favor their corporations is as an outstandingly obvious fact of life and is most peculiar and verges on the humorous. That ignorance makes further conversation not worth my attention.

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Frost
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Joined: January 20th, 2018, 2:44 pm

Re: Money and Ethics

Post by Frost » February 2nd, 2018, 2:42 pm

Jan Sand wrote:
February 2nd, 2018, 2:35 pm
To deny that money exerts far more power in economics and politics than merely a medium of exchange is to be totally blind to the current political and military forces in the successive destruction of multiple countries in the Middle East. The use of powerful financially motivated governments to destroy democracies in the world to favor their corporations is as an outstandingly obvious fact of life and is most peculiar and verges on the humorous. That ignorance makes further conversation not worth my attention.
I never denied that. That is why I described how a gold standard and 100% reserve and strict enforcement of property rights is so important to guard against those abuses, manipulation, and control.

Money is merely a medium of exchange, but of course people can use it to manipulate. But let's not misunderstand what it is and what its function is. It is not some sort of tool designed to oppress people, but rather it is a medium of exchange necessary to facilitate the complex economic interactions necessary to support modern civilization. If we understand what it is, we can understand what is necessary in order to reap the benefits while minimizing the abuses, which again comes back to a gold standard, 100% reserve banking, and strict enforcement of private property rights.

Jan Sand
Posts: 510
Joined: September 10th, 2017, 11:57 am

Re: Money and Ethics

Post by Jan Sand » July 19th, 2018, 11:40 pm

It might be worthwhile to attempt to return to basics on the nature of society to decide how human wealth is used to create a sustained relationship between natural possibilities of the planet and general human welfare. Property itself, of exchange media such as money or other valued properties or control of ideas and methods of production, valuable natural resources, useful social relationships, and many other ways society requires to function properly are human constructions and not laws of the universe. They only exist because people have decided they exist and social relationships find them useful and necessary. If the wealth of a rich person or organization is of benefit to society it is obviously worthwhile to society in general. If it is used to create luxury for only a small select group and great disruption and horrible misery for the rest of society and, as is the current case, immense disruption of the possible existence for all life on the planet, then a sensible society must see to it that this wealth is used properly for the general benefit of society and for the health of the planet. This goes far beyond the concepts of morality towards the way to see to it that society and life itself can be maintained. At the moment, it is quite obvious that human society is violently suicidal and if that cannot be remedied very quickly, the elements of morality will become completely irrelevant.

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