Is Suicide Immoral?

Discuss morality and ethics in this message board.
Featured Article: Philosophical Analysis of Abortion, The Right to Life, and Murder
Haicoway
Posts: 235
Joined: December 11th, 2014, 7:29 am

Re: Is Suicide Immoral?

Post by Haicoway »

Gosh, there are so many definitions and synonyms of “immoral.” It behooves one to state which definition is being addressed. For example, suicide might be biblically sinful but not dishonest.

I know this is pretentious, but…I have perhaps never seen so many pronoun agreement errors as in these comments.
User avatar
ThomasHobbes
Posts: 1122
Joined: May 5th, 2018, 5:53 pm

Re: Is Suicide Immoral?

Post by ThomasHobbes »

Haicoway wrote: September 18th, 2018, 9:12 am Gosh, there are so many definitions and synonyms of “immoral.” It behooves one to state which definition is being addressed. For example, suicide might be biblically sinful but not dishonest.

I know this is pretentious, but…I have perhaps never seen so many pronoun agreement errors as in these comments.
There are not different definitions of immoral.
There are different opinion as to what is and what is moral behaviour and therefore different versions as to what would constitute an immoral act.

Suicide is not a thing that can be honest or dishonest, as it is not an assertion of a fact.
User avatar
PhilosophyTalks
New Trial Member
Posts: 1
Joined: December 31st, 2018, 1:49 am

Re: Is Suicide Immoral?

Post by PhilosophyTalks »

In my (and the entire scientific community's) opinion various adverse facets of human psychology - be it suicide, addiction, narcissism etc shouldn't be evaluated as morally correct/incorrect. In fact, the idea that such psychological predilections can be categorized as morally right or wrong is primitive thinking. This is because with more and more research being poured into the domain of psychology, findings reveal that addict or a person likely to commit suicide differs from a normal person in two ways

1. The chemicals in the brain that dictate behavior
2. Anatomical differences that give rise to difference in cognition

Ergo, since these are abnormalities of the mental state - the question of right or wrong completely eliminates the actual understanding of the condition and lends to more stigma around mental illnesses.

You can refer to this article https://factdr.com/healthy-living/commo ... disorders/ to gauge why quantifying the morality of mental illness does more harm than good.
Haicoway
Posts: 235
Joined: December 11th, 2014, 7:29 am

Re: Is Suicide Immoral?

Post by Haicoway »

I was interested in this subject because I have a suicide date to exit the planet, and I don’t believe my motive falls exactly into either category you mention, except partially into the second.

As an aside, I think the term, “commit suicide,” implies morality, at least if you consider that laws are often enacted to correspond to society’s ideas around morality.

When my wife lay dying of cancer, she asked me to take my life and go with her, so she wouldn’t have to die alone. I suffer intense guilt over postponing complying with her request, citing that we had a lot of money I could use for a couple of bucket list items, rather than leave it to people I didn’t care about, or the state, and we didn’t even have burial arrangements or a headstone, yet.

I learned a tool to keep commitments, such as the one I made to join her on a certain date. You make it for no reason, putting it into the category, rhetorically anyway, of free will. There’s a process how to learn to make unconditional commitments, which would take up too much space to iterate here.

If you do something for a cognitive reason, or out of a mental disorder, then the reason can change, say from the result of a successful grieving process, or the mental disorder can be resolved, or ameliorated. So I made the commitment, not just because my beloved wife asked me to, but for no reason. It stands on its own, unattached to anything, irrevocably.
User avatar
LuckyR
Moderator
Posts: 7914
Joined: January 18th, 2015, 1:16 am

Re: Is Suicide Immoral?

Post by LuckyR »

PhilosophyTalks wrote: December 31st, 2018, 4:42 am In my (and the entire scientific community's) opinion various adverse facets of human psychology - be it suicide, addiction, narcissism etc shouldn't be evaluated as morally correct/incorrect. In fact, the idea that such psychological predilections can be categorized as morally right or wrong is primitive thinking. This is because with more and more research being poured into the domain of psychology, findings reveal that addict or a person likely to commit suicide differs from a normal person in two ways

1. The chemicals in the brain that dictate behavior
2. Anatomical differences that give rise to difference in cognition

Ergo, since these are abnormalities of the mental state - the question of right or wrong completely eliminates the actual understanding of the condition and lends to more stigma around mental illnesses.

You can refer to this article https://factdr.com/healthy-living/commo ... disorders/ to gauge why quantifying the morality of mental illness does more harm than good.
You exaggerate your experience in this area as well as the state of scientific consensus. Philosophical thought in this area typically addresses the issue of physician assisted suicide for those with terminal illnesses, not the irrational.
"As usual... it depends."
Jklint
Posts: 1719
Joined: February 23rd, 2012, 3:06 am

Re: Is Suicide Immoral?

Post by Jklint »

Not in the least providing one's affairs are taken care of including how pets are to be taken care of.
User avatar
LuckyR
Moderator
Posts: 7914
Joined: January 18th, 2015, 1:16 am

Re: Is Suicide Immoral?

Post by LuckyR »

Jklint wrote: January 1st, 2019, 5:13 am Not in the least providing one's affairs are taken care of including how pets are to be taken care of.
I don't absolutely disagree with you, but would amend your suicide is "not in the least" immoral, to suicide is not necessarily immoral, though it can be.
"As usual... it depends."
Jklint
Posts: 1719
Joined: February 23rd, 2012, 3:06 am

Re: Is Suicide Immoral?

Post by Jklint »

LuckyR wrote: January 1st, 2019, 5:20 am
Jklint wrote: January 1st, 2019, 5:13 am Not in the least providing one's affairs are taken care of including how pets are to be taken care of.
I don't absolutely disagree with you, but would amend your suicide is "not in the least" immoral, to suicide is not necessarily immoral, though it can be.
If you can explain how "it can be", I'd be happy to amend it.
Alias
Posts: 3119
Joined: November 26th, 2011, 8:10 pm
Favorite Philosopher: Terry Pratchett

Re: Is Suicide Immoral?

Post by Alias »

Morality, at any level, is subjective. Institutional entities, like a church or a state, base their laws on the moral system to which they subscribe. But none of those moral systems are objective or absolute or permanent.
If we take it down to the level of the individual, we each have convictions, a particular understanding of how we relate to the world; a conception of the standard of behaviour to which we aspire and the standard we're prepared to accept as adequate.
We each have to decide, in every situation, what's moral and what's immoral.
If an individual has done justice to their commitments and met their minimum standard, whatever they decide is right for them.
You can judge them but you can't decide for them.
User avatar
LuckyR
Moderator
Posts: 7914
Joined: January 18th, 2015, 1:16 am

Re: Is Suicide Immoral?

Post by LuckyR »

Jklint wrote: January 1st, 2019, 6:08 pm
LuckyR wrote: January 1st, 2019, 5:20 am

I don't absolutely disagree with you, but would amend your suicide is "not in the least" immoral, to suicide is not necessarily immoral, though it can be.
If you can explain how "it can be", I'd be happy to amend it.
Well, you came up with: when one's affairs aren't in order, on your own. As Alias pointed out, more what I was addressing was the situation where an individual decides for any reason (religion, perhaps) that suicide is immoral, since morals exist in individual minds.
"As usual... it depends."
Jklint
Posts: 1719
Joined: February 23rd, 2012, 3:06 am

Re: Is Suicide Immoral?

Post by Jklint »

LuckyR wrote: January 2nd, 2019, 2:56 am
Jklint wrote: January 1st, 2019, 6:08 pm

If you can explain how "it can be", I'd be happy to amend it.
Well, you came up with: when one's affairs aren't in order, on your own. As Alias pointed out, more what I was addressing was the situation where an individual decides for any reason (religion, perhaps) that suicide is immoral, since morals exist in individual minds.
I'm in conformity with the way Alias expressed it separating the institutional versions of morality with the far more deeply personal one. The two are not at all equal and what functions most for each and has the final say, are it's personal varieties. In that sense and in submission to one's remaining responsibilities, there is absolutely no immorality in taking what most privately belongs to you and no other.

If a person decides it's immoral to commit suicide that stance is just as valid for them - for reasons of their own - as its opposite would be for someone else who concludes that morality has no say when submitting to the final solution.
Alias
Posts: 3119
Joined: November 26th, 2011, 8:10 pm
Favorite Philosopher: Terry Pratchett

Re: Is Suicide Immoral?

Post by Alias »

Jklint -- there is absolutely no immorality in taking what most privately belongs to you and no other.
That's it! The succinct summary.
How often have you wondered at the characterization of suicide as "taking one's own life"?
When you kill another person, you deprive them of their single most personal possession; you take their life away from them.
But you can't take what you already own; you can only repudiate it.
At the same time, when a soldier is killed in battle, "he gave his life"; when he kills other soldiers, he is not said either to "give" or to "take" their lives; enemy combatants are merely killed, while civilians "fall victim" or "become casualties".
If a vagrant addict is found dead in a dumpster, their self-inflicted demise is characterized as "died at his own hand" or just od'd. Unwanted old people and prison inmates merely "passed away" from unknown causes.
Each of those phrases expresses a societal valuation of human lives, with an underlying, largely unexamined, assumption of their ownership.

What does it mean, "He took his own life"?
I believe it's a presumption of shareholding: by killing himself, he took a life out of the human collective, away from his associates; he deprived the family and community of a life in which they held an interest.
If we become more aware of how we evaluate the lives of our fellow citizens, we can make more sound judgments regarding their judgments.
Jklint
Posts: 1719
Joined: February 23rd, 2012, 3:06 am

Re: Is Suicide Immoral?

Post by Jklint »

It's not often I agree so completely with someone's POV. The various ways in which one's life can be annulled relative to how it happens and judged by society gives one further impetus to ponder.
Alias wrote: January 2nd, 2019, 11:56 amIf we become more aware of how we evaluate the lives of our fellow citizens, we can make more sound judgments regarding their judgments.
Unfortunately that kind of necessary inclusion has not yet been sufficiently mastered by society. Most still, without thinking, accept rules and regulations, theistic or secular, as if absolute equally applicable to all regardless of circumstance. The one argument I always found the most despicable is only god can take a life. What total BS! Since when was that ever true!
Alias
Posts: 3119
Joined: November 26th, 2011, 8:10 pm
Favorite Philosopher: Terry Pratchett

Re: Is Suicide Immoral?

Post by Alias »

Jklint wrote: January 2nd, 2019, 6:39 pm
Unfortunately that kind of necessary inclusion has not yet been sufficiently mastered by society.
Still, step by step, inch by inch, more humane laws are enacted.
The one argument I always found the most despicable is only god can take a life. What total BS! Since when was that ever true!
Especially when voiced by advocates of the death penalty and military intervention in foreign conflicts.

Hypocrisy runs shallow, but wide.
User avatar
204
New Trial Member
Posts: 4
Joined: February 22nd, 2019, 6:21 pm

Re: Is Suicide Immoral?

Post by 204 »

No; I wouldn't say suicide is immoral, and the reason being that I've tried killing myself before, and this much I know for sure: People who decide to kill themselves are NOT thinking clearly whatsoever....generally speaking. A suicidal individual is so distraught and wracked with emotional overload that they are in absolutely no condition to be making any moral choices.

Is a psychopath guilty for killing someone because they were clearly, in his own mind, a deranged mutant Santa Claus that was trying to kill everyone? Absolutely not; that man is the poster boy for the Insanity defense; he didn't know what he was doing, or the difference between fantasy, and reality, and so he's not really in any position to be judged on a moral basis.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, if you've reached the point where you believe your only choice left is to end your own life, then you are in a state of consciousness that is BEYOND good versus evil; beyond morality itself. You've officially become little more than a furry animal driven by instinct, and cannot morally be held accountable for your next decision.

If that makes any sense at all.
Post Reply

Return to “Ethics and Morality”

2023/2024 Philosophy Books of the Month

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise
by John K Danenbarger
January 2023

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul
by Mitzi Perdue
February 2023

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness
by Chet Shupe
March 2023

The Unfakeable Code®

The Unfakeable Code®
by Tony Jeton Selimi
April 2023

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are
by Alan Watts
May 2023

Killing Abel

Killing Abel
by Michael Tieman
June 2023

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead
by E. Alan Fleischauer
July 2023

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough
by Mark Unger
August 2023

Predictably Irrational

Predictably Irrational
by Dan Ariely
September 2023

Artwords

Artwords
by Beatriz M. Robles
November 2023

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope
by Dr. Randy Ross
December 2023

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes
by Ali Master
February 2024

2022 Philosophy Books of the Month

Emotional Intelligence At Work

Emotional Intelligence At Work
by Richard M Contino & Penelope J Holt
January 2022

Free Will, Do You Have It?

Free Will, Do You Have It?
by Albertus Kral
February 2022

My Enemy in Vietnam

My Enemy in Vietnam
by Billy Springer
March 2022

2X2 on the Ark

2X2 on the Ark
by Mary J Giuffra, PhD
April 2022

The Maestro Monologue

The Maestro Monologue
by Rob White
May 2022

What Makes America Great

What Makes America Great
by Bob Dowell
June 2022

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!
by Jerry Durr
July 2022

Living in Color

Living in Color
by Mike Murphy
August 2022 (tentative)

The Not So Great American Novel

The Not So Great American Novel
by James E Doucette
September 2022

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches
by John N. (Jake) Ferris
October 2022

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All
by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
November 2022

The Smartest Person in the Room: The Root Cause and New Solution for Cybersecurity

The Smartest Person in the Room
by Christian Espinosa
December 2022

2021 Philosophy Books of the Month

The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God's Plan

The Biblical Clock
by Daniel Friedmann
March 2021

Wilderness Cry: A Scientific and Philosophical Approach to Understanding God and the Universe

Wilderness Cry
by Dr. Hilary L Hunt M.D.
April 2021

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute: Tools To Spark Your Dream And Ignite Your Follow-Through

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute
by Jeff Meyer
May 2021

Surviving the Business of Healthcare: Knowledge is Power

Surviving the Business of Healthcare
by Barbara Galutia Regis M.S. PA-C
June 2021

Winning the War on Cancer: The Epic Journey Towards a Natural Cure

Winning the War on Cancer
by Sylvie Beljanski
July 2021

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream
by Dr Frank L Douglas
August 2021

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts
by Mark L. Wdowiak
September 2021

The Preppers Medical Handbook

The Preppers Medical Handbook
by Dr. William W Forgey M.D.
October 2021

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress: A Practical Guide

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress
by Dr. Gustavo Kinrys, MD
November 2021

Dream For Peace: An Ambassador Memoir

Dream For Peace
by Dr. Ghoulem Berrah
December 2021