Animal Ethics - Is it wrong to eat animals?

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Re: Animal Ethics - Is it wrong to eat animals?

Post by -1- » May 25th, 2018, 2:39 pm

Alias wrote:
May 25th, 2018, 8:48 am
Chatterbears, you can't demand reason. They have it or they don't.
Thanks, Alias for your support.

I know it reads as if you sided with Chatterbears, but in effect you aided my side.

I appreciate it.

Thanks.
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Re: Animal Ethics - Is it wrong to eat animals?

Post by -1- » May 25th, 2018, 2:52 pm

Eduk wrote:
May 25th, 2018, 3:34 am
You can't demand that people answer you as you would wish chatterbears?
I also believe he is also incapable of cherry-picking his facts and arguments without being noticed as he does it.

He can't admit he is wrong.

He can't tell the difference between emotions and ethics.

He confuses steps in logic and can't see his mistakes even when they are pointed out to him.

There are many things this young man, chatterbears, is incapable of doing.

But there is time to learn, and improve, and I hope, for his sake, that he shall.
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SimpleGuy
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Re: Animal Ethics - Is it wrong to eat animals?

Post by SimpleGuy » May 25th, 2018, 3:07 pm

For some people this is a thought to be done in distance. At least in distance to the fridge of 5ft, so that the boning of the chicken parts is not at stake.

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Re: Animal Ethics - Is it wrong to eat animals?

Post by ThomasHobbes » May 25th, 2018, 3:24 pm

chatterbears wrote:
May 24th, 2018, 6:32 pm
ThomasHobbes wrote:
May 24th, 2018, 4:53 am
The environment is being destroyed by wheat farming. Children are suffering mental deficiencies from too much carbohydrates; ADHD, autism, epilepsy. And adults are suffering an epidemic of coeliacs disease and diabetes. All of these ailments are cured or mitigated by moving to a highfat lowcarb diet. I advocate more grazing on the land which mimics the natural cycle of the carbon and nitrogen cycles, rather than dumping megatonnes of nitrates on to the land to which we have become dependant, as billions of hectares have lost their soil.
I can't even tell if you're serious anymore. Carbohydrates are causing autism, ADHD and epilepsy?
I think you might do better if you read more carefully.
The environment is being destroyed by wheat farming, but apparently not animal factory farming?
I think you might do better if you read more carefully.
You don't need to eat a lot of carbs on a Vegan diet, so your point is irrelevant.
I think you might do better if you read more carefully.

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Re: Animal Ethics - Is it wrong to eat animals?

Post by chatterbears » May 25th, 2018, 4:09 pm

-1- wrote:
May 25th, 2018, 2:38 pm
chatterbears wrote:
May 25th, 2018, 12:51 am

Would you accept the justification "because it tastes good", for ANY other action that a person could take? Yes or no.
If you only think in black-and-white, if your only acceptable answers are yes or no, if to you the world is divided by a very definite line between YOU and THEM, then you are not cut out to be a philosopher.
I find it absurd that you still cannot answer this simple question. And for good reason, because you know that it would portray a flaw in your ethics. My question could not get any more simple than that.

Would you accept your reasoning of "because it tastes good", to justify other actions that a person could take? This has nothing to do with thinking in black/white; it has to do with logical consistency. To deploy a justification in one context, but reject it in another context, needs some explanation. And since you don't care to provide one, let alone answer my simple question, I don't see a point in continuing to respond to you.

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Re: Animal Ethics - Is it wrong to eat animals?

Post by Alias » May 25th, 2018, 8:52 pm

Chatterbears, you're being baited.
You bring up a hypothetical question of morality, which you assume would be applied as a general rule, while -1- has declared that their ethical universe consists of only -one- person, whose preference is the absolute standard of their morality.
As long as this is the situation, you can't get a meaningful response.

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Re: Animal Ethics - Is it wrong to eat animals?

Post by -1- » May 25th, 2018, 11:02 pm

Alias wrote:
May 25th, 2018, 8:52 pm
Chatterbears, you're being baited.
You bring up a hypothetical question of morality, which you assume would be applied as a general rule, while -1- has declared that their ethical universe consists of only -one- person, whose preference is the absolute standard of their morality.
As long as this is the situation, you can't get a meaningful response.
Where have I declared what you claim I declared? You are out of your mind.

It is easy to put words that never came out of my mouth or pen or computer, and attach your opinion to your delusion. But what's the point? Whom do you think you are fooling? Other than yourself, nobody. Not even Chatterbears will agree with you that I declared what you claim I declared.

You are alone on this, and your only attachment to side with chatterbears is to gather allies against me.

Are you sure that the way to attract allies is to pull them in into your world of lies and delusion-strength allegations? Will they willingly comply to side with you, when you so clearly uttered a lie, a mismanagement of reality?

Does anyone want to be allies with a person who openly and without any room for misunderstanding attributes his own faulty wishful hearing to other people?

I mean, I don't care how you will back-pedal from this. You said it here and with unmistakable clarity that I said, nay, declared something which I never have.

You guys are quite something else.
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Re: Animal Ethics - Is it wrong to eat animals?

Post by -1- » May 25th, 2018, 11:13 pm

chatterbears wrote:
May 25th, 2018, 4:09 pm
I find it absurd that you still cannot answer this simple question. And for good reason, because you know that it would portray a flaw in your ethics. My question could not get any more simple than that.
Okay. One simple question to you: Do you eat human meat raw, or do you eat human meat cooked? I will only accept one or the other of two answers:

1. Raw.
2. Cooked.

Simple question. Simple answer. If you can't answer this simple question, what can you answer?

----------------------------------

In other words, you are an idiot extraordinaire, chatterbears. Not because you will refuse to answer this question. I admit that this question is absurd. But so is your question to me. It is your question that is absurd, not my refusal to answer it.

Much like my question to you was absurd, so was your question to me.

That's A.

B. is that you can't elicit answers from people only because you want them to commit to a point you think you can defeat. You have to state a reason why you ask the question. There are nuances to all answers, and a simple yes-or-no answer is in this case absurd to commit to.

That is why you asked your question in the first place. Your trap was transparent, and you don't even know that. Instead, you are trying to show a moral upper hand because someone failed to fall for your easily spotted trick.

In other words, you are ridiculous.
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Re: Animal Ethics - Is it wrong to eat animals?

Post by Alias » May 25th, 2018, 11:48 pm

See what I mean?

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Re: Animal Ethics - Is it wrong to eat animals?

Post by chatterbears » May 26th, 2018, 6:03 am

-1- wrote:
May 25th, 2018, 11:13 pm
Okay. One simple question to you: Do you eat human meat raw, or do you eat human meat cooked? I will only accept one or the other of two answers
I've never given you my position on whether or not I eat human meat. If I did, then it would make sense for you to ask if I eat it raw or cooked.

On the other hand, you HAVE given a position on what reasoning you use to justify your actions. And the reason you use to justify eating meat, is "because it tastes good". So my follow up question to your statement of how you justify your actions, is if you would be okay accepting that same justification for other actions that someone could take. This is a very simple question that allows for you to answer and explain. Because if you're answer is 'No', then you'd have to explain why you are okay deploying a justification, but then you are not okay letting others deploy the same justification. This is where consistency comes in.
Alias wrote:
May 25th, 2018, 11:48 pm
See what I mean?
Yeah. I think he may be trolling, but I am not completely sure yet. Either way, he doesn't understand basic logical consistency within his own argumentation. He thinks my question is the equivalent of asking someone a question that asserts their position which they have never even stated. Yet, he is the one who has stated a position, and I am asking for clarification on if other people can use his same reasoning, or is only HE allowed to use it to justify his actions.

I thought I made it as simple as possible, but I guess not.

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Re: Animal Ethics - Is it wrong to eat animals?

Post by Alias » May 26th, 2018, 11:39 am

chatterbears wrote:
May 26th, 2018, 6:03 am
I've never given you my position on whether or not I eat human meat.
You have, actually. "I am not a cannibal and I never stated I was." a couple of pages back.
Mode of preparation was not, and cannot be, at issue in the context.
Yeah. I think he may be trolling, but I am not completely sure yet.
Not exactly that, I think. The style is strongly reminiscent of an individual whom/which I've encountered before, with whom/which verbal engagement proved unfruitful. I believe this individual to be disingenuous in their posts, for reasons beyond my ken or concern.

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Re: Animal Ethics - Is it wrong to eat animals?

Post by chatterbears » May 26th, 2018, 4:12 pm

Alias wrote:
May 26th, 2018, 11:39 am
chatterbears wrote:
May 26th, 2018, 6:03 am
I've never given you my position on whether or not I eat human meat.
You have, actually. "I am not a cannibal and I never stated I was." a couple of pages back.
Mode of preparation was not, and cannot be, at issue in the context.
This is true, but still goes against his question. If he is aware of my position on eating human meat, to asking whether I eat it cooked or raw is inaccurate and flawed. If I said, yes I eat human meat, then it would make sense for him to ask whether I eat it cooked or raw.

I am aware of his position on eating animals, and am asking whether he is willing to let other people deploy that same justification to commit other actions.

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Re: Animal Ethics - Is it wrong to eat animals?

Post by Alias » May 26th, 2018, 5:51 pm

chatterbears wrote:
May 26th, 2018, 4:12 pm
If I said, yes I eat human meat, then it would make sense for him to ask whether I eat it cooked or raw.
I know what you've been trying to do.
I'm saying that preference, self-interest and expediency [as: "I like it" or "I want to" or "It's convenient and plentiful" or even "It's good for me"]
are not moral justifications for any choice.
Even if one were an obligate cannibal (stranded in the Andes with his companions' frozen corpses) or commanded by his religion to the ritual ingestion of human flesh on prescribed feast days, or had some other ethical justifications (The human population needs to be culled of its weak and injured), the raw vs cooked question would still be irrelevant in the context.
It might make sense in an aesthetic, culinary or health-oriented context

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Re: Animal Ethics - Is it wrong to eat animals?

Post by Greta » May 26th, 2018, 6:41 pm

Please dial back the ad homimem attacks that only serve to invalidate the perpetrator.

It's not a lot to ask. The alternative is banning. Can't there be one philosophy forum free of pointless ad hominem attacks? There are others where one can go hard with impunity.

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Re: Animal Ethics - Is it wrong to eat animals?

Post by Alias » May 26th, 2018, 7:39 pm

If that is what I did, I apologize.
Those who can induce you to believe absurdities can induce you to commit atrocities. - Voltaire

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